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Twin Honda 40’s to twin Honda 60’s
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hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 12632
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jay, thanks for the new info. About 4.5 mph between both and single at 3400, with higher sped on the 3 blade. That surprised me. I like the 4 blade for slow speed work. They seem more Positive, especially in reverse.

Harvey
SleepyC Moon


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Hunkydory



Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2652
City/Region: Cokeville, Wyoming
State or Province: WY
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Hunkydory
Photos: Hunkydory-Jay-and-Jolee
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On lake Powell with the 14 pitch props, 32 mph at 6000 rpm with 80 gallons of fuel, 30 gal water, 13 foot Kaboat & 6 hp Suzuki aboard. One disappointment, I still can’t get over 10 mph on just one motor & not completely on plane with the 14 pitch prop even though with both can hit the max WOT of 6000 rpm. Might be able to at sea level, but there I now think a 15 pitch is doable, so just planning on always having a back up 10 pitch prop to do 12 to 15 mph on a single 60 hp if needed.

Jay

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lloyds



Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 1724
City/Region: sublimity
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 1996
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: undecided
Photos: 1996 22 Cruiser (Lloyds)
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They have an option of a larger gear case. Which did you go with?
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Hunkydory



Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2652
City/Region: Cokeville, Wyoming
State or Province: WY
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Hunkydory
Photos: Hunkydory-Jay-and-Jolee
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, Honda has the larger gear case BFP 60 that weighs 256 lbs. I felt I was already stretching my desired weight with the choice of the regular BF 60 & it’s 239 lbs. The BFP 60 choice will have to be made & then tried out by someone else. It probably would have made possible planing on a single with my present 14 pitch prop, but it’s weight combined with my preference for extra fuel & other items for my extended cruises may not have worked out well. Also the larger gear case with lower & larger gears made more for boats like the pontoon variety gave me concern about the possibility of lower fuel milage. This much I do know, I’m very satisfied with the twin BF 60’s so far.

Jay
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Fishcatcher907



Joined: 05 Apr 2019
Posts: 71
City/Region: Soldotna
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Legacy
Photos: Legacy
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hunkydory wrote:
Yes, Honda has the larger gear case BFP 60 that weighs 256 lbs. I felt I was already stretching my desired weight with the choice of the regular BF 60 & it’s 239 lbs. The BFP 60 choice will have to be made & then tried out by someone else. It probably would have made possible planing on a single with my present 14 pitch prop, but it’s weight combined with my preference for extra fuel & other items for my extended cruises may not have worked out well. Also the larger gear case with lower & larger gears made more for boats like the pontoon variety gave me concern about the possibility of lower fuel milage. This much I do know, I’m very satisfied with the twin BF 60’s so far.

Jay


What are your preliminary burn rates?

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Hunkydory



Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2652
City/Region: Cokeville, Wyoming
State or Province: WY
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Hunkydory
Photos: Hunkydory-Jay-and-Jolee
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fishcatcher,

I didn’t choose to set up the motors with the nmea 2000 information, so don’t have exact fuel burn rates, but with a internet search, I did come up with data using similar weight & prop pitch & diameter, that so far seems very close to my own very preliminary data using just fuel burned on the cruises so far at Lake Yellowstone & Powell. At Powell, I averaged 5.4 mpg with a 50/50 mix of displacement & on plane cruising with the boat fairly heavy. This is a chart I got off the internet & so far think the numbers close to what I’m seeing.



Jay
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Fishcatcher907



Joined: 05 Apr 2019
Posts: 71
City/Region: Soldotna
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Legacy
Photos: Legacy
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hunkydory wrote:
Fishcatcher,

I didn’t choose to set up the motors with the nmea 2000 information, so don’t have exact fuel burn rates, but with a internet search, I did come up with data using similar weight & prop pitch & diameter, that so far seems very close to my own very preliminary data using just fuel burned on the cruises so far at Lake Yellowstone & Powell. At Powell, I averaged 5.4 mpg with a 50/50 mix of displacement & on plane cruising with the boat fairly heavy. This is a chart I got off the internet & so far think the numbers close to what I’m seeing.



Jay


That’s very impressive!
I am looking foreword hearing back on this in a year.
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SEA3PO



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 1835
City/Region: Chester
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SEA3PO
Photos: SEA3PO
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jay

I always thought even with the 40's the 22' was stern heavy....especially underway.... so I moved my batteries forward under the bearth...I use sealed Optima marine batteries..(heavy)...it brings the bow down and seems to make the boat handle rough water much easier...more balanced for sure. a ton of work...lots of rewiring...makes a much shorter run from the batteries to the fuze panel and larger gauge battery cables to the motors...glad I did it...but not a weekend job.

Joel
SEA3PO
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Hunkydory



Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2652
City/Region: Cokeville, Wyoming
State or Province: WY
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Hunkydory
Photos: Hunkydory-Jay-and-Jolee
PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joel, I well remember you doing this project & agree it worked out well for you. On my latest Lake Powell cruise, I stored 9 gallons of bottled water up under the v birth & think it did help some, but when I’am on extended cruises, I have as much as 575 extra lbs in the cockpit, beyond full fuel tanks 75 lbs one way or the other doesn’t make much difference. Though I do try do spread more other weight forward too, to balance as much as possible, but what helps most for me is the Permatrims on both twins & they are considerably larger than the ones on the twin 40’s, plus the trim tabs. I didn’t have the permatrims on my first few SE Alaska cruises, so really appreciate after installed. Now the twin 60’s added to permitrims & trimtabs & properly propped my extra stern weight really is no longer a big concern.

Jay
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kennharriet



Joined: 22 Jan 2009
Posts: 510
City/Region: Grangeville
State or Province: ID
C-Dory Year: 1999
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Lochsa
Photos: Lochsa
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jay, I am following your posts with great interest as we consider re-power options. When you were considering the Tohatsu, were you looking at the BFT60 or the MFS60. With rough calculations, the total weight deference between a single Honda 90 and my current 6hp Tohatsu kicker, compared to twin Tohatsu MFS60’s without kicker is only an increase of about 10 lbs. That is very attractive given the increase in overall capability, ie: maneuverability, safety redundancy, power, economy, etc.
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Hunkydory



Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2652
City/Region: Cokeville, Wyoming
State or Province: WY
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Hunkydory
Photos: Hunkydory-Jay-and-Jolee
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ken, My understanding is the Tohatsu BFT 60 hp is the same motor as my Honda’s 60. I’m pleased with them, but probably should have waited for the Tohatsu MFS 60, which really is a Tohatsu motor that just came out this year. It actually weighs one lbs less then my old Honda 40’s. I was told by Kathy at EQ marine, I would be on a waiting list if that was what I wanted, so with Sportscraft Marine in Portland saying, they could put on the Honda BF 60’s just as soon as I wanted at a fair to me price, I made the choice for the Honda BF 60. Also after all the years running my Honda 40’s, I know Honda makes a good outboard.

The possible draw back with the Tohatsu MFS 60 compared to the Honda BF 60 or Tohatsu BFT 60 is the latter two have 132 more cc in the block, which adds more weight, but possibly more torque, more than making up for the weight. If I wouldn’t have had to wait for the Tohatsu MFS 60, I would have made the gamble with the torque. 60 hp in 213 lbs of motor sounds weighing less then the old Honda 40’s sounded really appealing. I think the 60 hp twins either Honda, Suzuki or Tohatsu make for a hard to beat combo on a C-Dory 22. I would include the Yamaha, but like the larger gear boxed Honda just over the line for weight.

Jay
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kennharriet



Joined: 22 Jan 2009
Posts: 510
City/Region: Grangeville
State or Province: ID
C-Dory Year: 1999
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Lochsa
Photos: Lochsa
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Jay. There is a local Tohatsu dealer so aill check to see what they can do. Also, for you and others with twins and lack of swim step, how do you manage getting on and off your dingy?
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have the swim step, but never use it for boarding the dinghy. I get in the dinghy first, stepping on the pontoon, and then down onto the air floor (or slats if lighter model) hold the boat solidly against the hull while Marie steps into the boat with the dog--or dog jumps into the boat. Going out is exactly the opposite.

The swim step does make it easier getting off stern to the beach (as at Lake Powell) or up from the after market swim ladder (deeper than the factory ladder).

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Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
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Home port: Pensacola FL
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Hunkydory



Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2652
City/Region: Cokeville, Wyoming
State or Province: WY
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Hunkydory
Photos: Hunkydory-Jay-and-Jolee
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes I do like Bob & just tightly hold the Kaboat or in the past Mokai & West Marine RU 260 against the CD22, while JoLee would get in & then I quickly In after, but most of the time, I secured the end of the towing bridle (which i always keep attached to the dingy) to the cockpit handle on the side & also from that handle & another attachment point at the stern end of the cockpit, use two 3/8 inch dock lines tied on the other end to the rope that weaves around the top of the inflatable with quick release easy & fast to tie knots. We have both found it very easy to get in & out of the inflatable this way. In fact, the times we have gone over to other boats to use their swim steps to board has always been more difficult. Also of the three types; Mokai, West Marine RU260 & the Kaboats, the West Marine inflatable due to its slatted floor was the only one where extra care was really needed when getting in & out.

Jay
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SEA3PO



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 1835
City/Region: Chester
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SEA3PO
Photos: SEA3PO
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jay....moving from a 40 to a 60...Did you need to change all your instruments and gauges ? I thought about doing that same thing...40 Yamaha to 60 Yamaha..

Joel
SEA3PO
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