Tomcat build questions

[westward]

We have identified the 255 Tomcat as our likely next boat as it "checks many of our boxes" for our boating use. Not many available currently, but we probably won't buy until this Fall. Reading and researching everything I can.

I've read about significant finish upgrades beginning around 2009. Anyone have specific information on this? Does it correspond to a change in factory ownership?

Also: what is the method of hull construction for the various years? I'm assuming the 2006 era boats were of typical C-Dory hand-laid/balsa core construction? I have read about resin infusion and use of composite core in later boats. Any information in this regard would be appreciated. Any areas of special concern or high failure rate to be aware of when surveying?

Finally, does anyone know the cost of a new model in round numbers? Still too early for us to approach a dealer should we decide to buy new, and most likely we'll try to buy used.

Thanks so much, Mike

[westward]

Also, does anyone know how the new "sport" model differs from the existing Tomcat?

[ricka]

Westward,
We just took a tour of the Factory at the end of May and have placed a order for a TomCat. Bob (Thataway ) from this forum is very knowable in regards to TomCats. We did notice a upgraded finish on the inside compared to the older boats. They still put out one with the rougher finish for less$ which they call the sport model. Michael Miillison (VP of Production Owner) said that they will do pretty much any thing you would like on your build if it can be done. We ordered ours with the seastar joystick docking ( Very Spendy ) and some shelves in the berth area. You should contact Marty from Master Marine and he will take on a tour of the factory so you can see the build process first hand. They do use a composite core now not balsa I cant remember what he called it

[hardee]

2 things.

1. There is a C-BRAT gathering (CBGT) coming up in August in Bellingham and there is a factory tour scheduled as part of the gathering activities.

2. Really consider an AIRHEAD or similar composting toilet system instead of a marine head. Get away from the head and holding tank mode and put in a composting toilet system. Way less fuss and muss, and much less hassle in care, feeding and maintenance. You will be able to gain some storage space -- no black water holding tank, and you will be able to skip the pumpouts every week.

Look up "Airhead".
Check with Pat and Patti Anderson on Daydream. They are Gold Loopers (did the "Great Loop" on a CD-25.
Link to their Great Loop blog:
https://daydreamsloop.blogspot.com/
"The Airhead composting toilet. Never needing to pump out was a huge benefit."


Consider it, unless you like plumbing while standing on your head and reaching where you can't see.
(BTW, no personal experience, just word of mouth from both sides of the "experience")

Harvey
SleepyC

[westward]

Thanks for your replies. I will look into the airhead toilet as I have no love for complexity and it’s associated challenges. Rick: not to pry, but what is the approximate $$ commitment for the boat with motors? Do you know the approximate discount for the sport model? Can’t wait to see your new vessel!

Mike

[DayBreak]

Mike, the rougher finish that Rick refers to is a spray on stipple to the inside finish of the cabin on the standard 'Sport' model. The other way to go is with the extra option of the more finished soft vinyl application they apply to the inside cabin and forward berth, used for the non-Sport model. Ask around and do all the research because there are those that say the insulated vinyl only attracts moisture behind the vinyl which leads to unseen mold on the back-side. Not sure if this is really true or not or if it is even really a problem, but we went with the stipple spray method (I like simplicity) and are very pleased in doing so. Stipple is is easy to clean and won't cut, tear or stain as easily as the soft vinyl. The vinyl is soft, insulated, looks good and it is probably quieter in the cabin while motoring. Tough call!

Gary.

[thataway]

All good information. The early Tom Cats had foam in the transom. Hulls were still balsa--there are some advantages to Balsa, as long as the core is not penetrated. I am not aware of any core problems on the C Dory 255's--a couple of early 24 TC had some core issues.

The "holding tank" in the Tom Cats, is built into the base of the Sea Land Toilet, so it does not take up any more space than the Air Head. We do have our first Air Head, and like it. Would not go back.

You can get two water tanks now, and if you are planing long trips, it is worth considering.

I personally like the "sport" interior--nice to hose the boat out if it gets dirty (fine red sand from Lake Powell, for example). When we got our most recent 25, there was mold, and we just scrubbed down the interior. I have seen mold in the Venture series head liners--in / under the foam, and the foam delaminating from the hull and vinyl interior. This issue is more likely in the South.

In the 2009 era there were many changes in the ownership--and even now it is a bit clouded. There were not a lot of 255's made in that year.

The area of failures, has been the macerator pumps, in the cockpit "fish" or deck boxes--which leak. The bilge pumps are difficult to access, and replace. If a fuel had to be replaced, there would be a lot of cutting involved. The fiberglass interior is an aesthetic improvement--but if it had to be taken apart for a tank (removal) it would be difficult....Worth discussing.

Fully loaded with engines and trailer, no tax--be in the $150,000 range. In 2006 we paid about $118,000, with Float on Trailer (which I recommend--but is a Florida trailer)--two 150 Suzuki's--which I recommend--or even the 175's--The Suzuki's because of prop and gearing seem to be faster boats. Maybe slightly more fuel efficient.

A couple of general comments: The wing (or Bridge) deck between the hulls is a bit lower than it should be. This is true for all of the 255's. The hulls on the 24 and 255 are the same, but the 255 has the transom and outboard bracket--it is a heavier boat. Thus there is some immersion of the aft part of the wing deck at low speeds and rest. This gives more slap,. The boats ride well up to about 3' chop. As chop increases, we found that faster speeds gave a better ride. We would run at 35 going up Perdido bay when there was a fetch of 14 miles with a Norther pushing wind waves down the bay. Although some run the 255 at displacement speeds, I rarely did-- If I was building a boat today, I would make the hulls deeper (deck higher) to give more tunnel clearance.--but that is not going to happen anytime soon....

The boats were well made. There was one boat in FL which appeared to be badly abused, and struck by lightning. It has been sold and taken to a new owner in AK who is going to rehab it, and I suspect it will continue to have a long life.

The other down side is the weight. It is going to be over 10,000 lbs on the trailer. Although there are some 1/2 tons which are advertised to tow this weight--a 3/4 ton diesel is a far better truck. See Gulfcoast John's recent comments on his new truck. We had a 3/4 Ton Diesel, and it was a load--much more than the 25 by several thousand lbs. This is one reason we didn't go back to a Tom Cat--and went with a 25...Electric over hydraulic brakes I consider an essential on that size load--Some do fine without, but in the West, where there are grades, it is prudent.

The Tom Cat 255 is a great boat, and good choice for the PNW.

[westward]

Thanks for the thoughtful replies. Bob: your post should be archived as a guide for would-be Tomcat purchasers and I thank you.

Mike

[cmetzenberg]

The hull slap is the biggest annoyance with the tomcat. At anchor in even a small chop it is like living inside of a drum. I sleep through it but my wife wears earplugs.

[cmetzenberg]

Also to further Bob's comment on the pumps; the tomcats have lots of pumps.
2 macerators for the fish boxes that are extremely difficult to access.
1 macerator for the head, should you forgo the airhead.
2 diaphragm type washdown pumps. One for freshwater and one for saltwater washdown hose.
2 automatic bilge pumps that are very had to access.
1 bait tank pump that is hard to access.

I have had failures on half of these and it is a real pain in the ass. Many of the failures have been exacerbated by how the pumps were mounted; flat on their sides or worse yet with the motor end down. The problem with having many of these pumps mounted in any way asides from motor up is that as they age and the seals begin to leak the leakage can enter the electric motor and cause a total failure that results in the need for a entirely new pump. I little leakage from a pump gland isn't such a big deal (unless it's your sewage overboard, that was gross). As long as you are buying new, i'd ensure the yard mounts all the pumps motor up to increase their life span.

[ricka]

Mike, we worked with Marty from Master Marine. I despise hard sell aggressive car lot types. Marty was low key easy to deal with and has answered or found out the answer to any questions we have had. We ordered the higher priced model as we prefer the more finished look as compared to the sport. We live in a very dry climate and have been meticulous in taking care of our boats so we do not see the vinyl as an issue. I do want to check into the airhead toilet though. Anyway We wanted come in no higher then $180000. and we wanted the seastar joystick docking control which is very expensive. To come in at our figure we left most options off. You are welcome to give me a call if you like. Rick at 530-340-2167
Sorry about the slow response I have been busy getting our whaler on the market and talking to prospective buyers.
Also I had received 3 different MSRP sheets from 2 different dealers and would be glad to cover those with you

[gulfcoast john]

Hi Westward/Mike and Ricka//Rick!

Concur with Bob, the 255 is great boat, for the PNW or most anywhere else!

I regard the design goal as a trailer boat that can be trailered anywhere in the continent, 24/7, without a permit (each state has its own requirements, and you are a non-resident of 49 of them) with a standard production truck (not a custom Freightliner) with a standard non-gooseneck, non-wgt distributing hitch (prohibited by most I-beam trailer makers). This is very hard for the best nautical engineers to design within the 8.5’ width and 13.5’ hgt federal highway standards. Any boat LOA under 3.1 times it’s width will pound in chop.
There will always be chop.

We are cruisers who don’t fish, so take that into account with our opinions.

My 255 is 2010 HIN#0001 (Triton first build, our PO said only one other was built and went to Canada and the builder was sold again before the 3rd was finished). ...so others may be different.

I don’t think cutting access to the fuel tanks is an issue.
We are in overstuffed cruise mode on the Waccamaw river ICW in SC so I can’t take a pic, but the panels under the cabinets port and starboard would allow the tanks to be pulled out without cutting anything and with no cabinet mullions interfering like on prior models. When we get back I need to get Bob to measure these with me to confirm or warn about this.

I am also always puzzled by posts re difficulty accessing the bilge pumps at the transom. Our hatches are about 14” x 24” and access to the bilge pumps is very easy. I added the ‘arid bilge’ option C-Otter described, works great.
It’s very easy for me to access and replace the 8 freshwater pumps on my boat (full disclosure, I’m 6’1” 150# and have long arms). Our most difficult is the freshwater pump that lives on the bottom of the stbd sponson access plate, but it is still only a 2-beer job.

These Airhead boosters (and I admit we may be one someday) have not admitted to you that you must remove your 2g (1.5g cap?) pee container and take it up to the marina restroom and empty your pee every day. You can pee in the water. You can pee over the side. But you can not legally pee in the Airhead and then empty that container over the side.
That is not for us, though it may be fine for you.

Let’s just be full disclosure honest here!

The Dometic gravity black tank is sealed very well by a water ball valve that only allows odors to come up when you open it. If it don’t hold water for 72 hours, you need to replace the 2 Dometic seals ($37 and 2 hours). If it smells a bit, open the head screened porthole, close the door, and the rooftop Coleman RV AC will still work just as great. We currently favor Happy Camper plus West Marine Odor Away, but we think this entire issue is a bit over-wrought. Like removing the fuel tanks and bilge pumps.
Give us the smelling salts! (We are in SC Lowcountry)

The TC255 has an ideal combination of widely spaced outboards, and throttle-only steering. I don’t think joystick docking is worth the cost or (mostly) the complexity of the systems required. You can buy a great Ford 250 and trailer with EOH brakes for $30,000….But….Best wishes!

I would choose Suz 175’s and 4 blade props on a new boat (cheapo aluminum props will bend before your SS expensive propshaft bends when..not if… you hit something). J
You will hit something.

Just for resale for those idiot newbies impressed by HP and top end.

However, with over 6 years with this 255, we find that a solid, secure, serene, stable ride “above the chop” at 22-25 MPH is ideal or even too fast to follow the ICW here in the SC Lowcountry with it’s 270 degree U-turns into tiny creeks you can’t even see until you are in them.

And we EACH have a pivoting 12” Garmin MFD to decipher where the hell that magenta line is going.

If your builder will work with you, I would ask for

#1 Mid-ship cleats on both sides. All engine controls run just under the STBD side so I would understand if this can’t be done there. Get only this if you can’t get anything else. For a cruising couple like us, a fore and aft fender and a midship line GIVES 100% CONTROL OF THE BOAT.
GET THIS IF YOU CAN’T GET ANYTHING ELSE! WORTH $2,000!!!

#2 Delete the berth portholes. Each is a PLWTH (potential leak waiting to happen), too small to give any ventilation, esp with a screen and a privacy cover. Berth ventilation is tough, instead install another 110v outlet forward of the Nav seat cabinet for fan outlets there without needing ext cords. We have had nasty conditions where seawater blasted through the center window and would have unindated any tiny berth portholes.

#3 Consider substituting a Norcold NR751SS self-ventilating (out the front) 3.1 CF fridge instead of the std 2.3 CF fridge. That nav seat cabinet has no ventilation and it killed my std fridge. Fits in the std cutout with a bit of sawing and still leaves wasted space outboard. Another consideration is a roll-out chest freezer as favored by Bob, Andersons, and many others.

Outfitting a TC255 is the most fun you can have with your pants on!
Enjoy!

Cheers!
John

[hardee]

Jophn Said:

[ssobol]

[South of Heaven]

Westward: Congrats on the Cat! That's exciting!