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cmetzenberg



Joined: 04 Jan 2014
Posts: 367
City/Region: Santa Barbara
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Kanaloa
Photos: Kanaloa
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, that sounds like an amazing trip. I went from La Paz to Puerto Escondido when I was a kid on some guys cabin cruiser. It was an amazing trip.

What about a simple, cheap, but heavy solution; a 55 gallon drum full of water. It will add about 500lbs to the boat. There are places that you'll be able to get water along the way in 5-10 gallon increments by using Jerry cans or bladders. Places like Mulege, etc. Then just bring a copious supply of iodine tablets to treat said water.

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07' Tomcat 255 "Kanaloa"
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Micahbigsur@msn.com



Joined: 27 May 2019
Posts: 484
City/Region: Big Sur
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sierra
Photos: Sierra
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks,
I have been having so much fun rebuilding Sierra, the tug was almosg new and only needed a few things like salt water foot pumps and the composting toilet. It was overweight with teak and the fiberglass liners made it hard to work on with a lot of the electrical stuff like fore and aft thrusters in inaccessible areas in high saltwater environments. The common rail computer run Yanmar/BMW collaboration was discontinued by Yanmar, overstressed with long term problems, this was not the kind of diesel I learned to maintain on bulldozers and such on our ranch or on our original sailboats. I know it sounds crazy bit I came to the conclusion that modern 4 stroke outboards were more worked out, reliable, and simpler than the new generation of diesels. I don't expect to do all the maintenance on our Suzukis myself but outboard mechanics are everywhere and Yanmar mechanics with their computer diagnostics are not.I am pretty lame at posting stuff, I always seem to push a button that screws my posts up, I did put up a post in the welcome new member deal that gave a few more specifics on our transformation of Sierra yesterday, but I pushed the reply button so it went down to the bottom of the posts.
Thanks for your patience, Micah

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Micah Curtis and Dana, RN
2003 C-dory 25 Sierra, 200, 9.9 and 2.5 Suzukis
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1978 Folkes 38 SV Audacious (2006-2015)
Micah, KJ6GUF, Dana, KJ6GXG
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smckean (Tosca)



Joined: 18 Jan 2014
Posts: 974
City/Region: Guemes Island (Anacortes)
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Tosca
Photos: Tosca
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thataway wrote:
CDC puts out a nice table which shows the effectiveness of the various techniques.

Interesting table (thanks for posting that link).

FWIW, I can add one wrinkle to the conclusions of that table. Iodine may be more effective in killing parasites and cysts than indicated (note the only downside of iodine in the table is for parasites and cysts).

I used to be heavy duty backpacker in very remote areas. Spent at least 1000 days in the wild. I am also very susceptible to Giardia (I've had it 5 times). I also traveled for a couple of years in remote areas of Asia where drinking untreated water got me sick nearly every time.

I did a lot of research, as well as practical in-the-field testing, given my Giardia problem. My solution? Using iodine in much higher concentrations than normally used. I never got sick (even Giardia) when doing this, but got Giardia multiple times both backpacking and 3rd world traveling when I didn't do this.

There are 2 disadvantages of doing this: one, you must wait to drink; two, there will be a residual taste of iodine. One gets used to the taste (at least I did); and the biggest problem for waiting is that you must plan ahead (in backpacking it also forced me to drink warmish water instead of fresh, cold stream water).
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hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 12632
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

smckean (Tosca) wrote:
thataway wrote:
CDC puts out a nice table which shows the effectiveness of the various techniques.

Interesting table (thanks for posting that link).

FWIW, I can add one wrinkle to the conclusions of that table. Iodine may be more effective in killing parasites and cysts than indicated (note the only downside of iodine in the table is for parasites and cysts).

I used to be heavy duty backpacker in very remote areas. Spent at least 1000 days in the wild. I am also very susceptible to Giardia (I've had it 5 times). I also traveled for a couple of years in remote areas of Asia where drinking untreated water got me sick nearly every time.

I did a lot of research, as well as practical in-the-field testing, given my Giardia problem. My solution? Using iodine in much higher concentrations than normally used. I never got sick (even Giardia) when doing this, but got Giardia multiple times both backpacking and 3rd world traveling when I didn't do this.

There are 2 disadvantages of doing this: one, you must wait to drink; two, there will be a residual taste of iodine. One gets used to the taste (at least I did); and the biggest problem for waiting is that you must plan ahead (in backpacking it also forced me to drink warmish water instead of fresh, cold stream water).


Curious, What were your "higher levels of Iodine". I have had Giardia one time. By all means, Treatment is better than cure., I do not want to get that again.

Harvey
SleepyC Moon


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smckean (Tosca)



Joined: 18 Jan 2014
Posts: 974
City/Region: Guemes Island (Anacortes)
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Tosca
Photos: Tosca
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Curious, What were your "higher levels of Iodine"

Harvey, I can't tell you specifically. I always used iodine crystals (I don't recommend the tablets). A small bottle of crystals lasts years. The bottle will likely recommend the amount of water to add given the water temperature (colder water dissolves less iodine). I ignored those recommendations. I simply filled a 20-30ml bottle (with the iodine crystals at the bottom) using near room temperature water. Iodine is chemically a metal, so the crystals are heavy and easily stay at the bottom of the bottle. Shake well until the water dissolves as much iodine as possible (known as a saturated solution). I added maybe 15 ml of that saturated solution to a liter water bottle. Let it stand 30 to 60 minutes with the top off. After a while you get used to what color that saturated solution looks like. If it is too light in color (for example if the water is too cold), then I gave it a double dose.

Much of the iodine vents out of the bottle so the iodine taste diminishes in an hour or so from when you first add the iodine. I have also drank the water nearly immediately after adding the iodine when I had to with no ill effects (although the taste is stronger). Whatever the concentration I used, it was much stronger than the recommended concentration. I think the recommendations are based on the minimal amount that kill bacteria and other small organisms; parasites and cysts are more heavily "fortified" -- which is why a heavier dose is required. My assumption has been they recommend the lighter concentration in order to minimize what many would probably call an objectionable taste; but the strong-ish iodine taste never bothered me (or my wife). We drank such water nearly every day for 2 years in Asia....never a problem. The body can handle the iodine as long as you don't get a massive dose (such as by accidentally drinking the crystals themselves). Indeed your body needs a certain amount of iodine.

P.S. Yes the treatment for Giardia is horrid (flagyl.....basically a poison). You feel miserable while taking it. BTW, one of the times I had Giardia was after taking water from a stream in BC to fill a boat water tank.
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
. However, in general, the oceans have gotten dirtier & busier with many more cruising boats crowding anchorages over the years, many if not most dumping their raw sewage right there where anchored where we would be washing dishes & brushing our teeth.


Yes, and indeed these are not places where you should be using a water maker.



Quote:
.We do have a 2003 C-Dory & the water tank is already in the bow under the V Berth, so no putting any other tank up there. We have considered putting in a water bladder in the back in the holding tank that we are not using as we have a composting head, but that project would be difficult to get to & figure out

The water tank you have in your 2003 C Dory is on the port side. There is still room for another tank/bladder tank under the V Berth. Also the direct conversion (after appropriate sterilization) of the aft holding tank, since it is not being used, is a viable option.

I Cruised Baja from the mid 1960's until 1996--I am sure that there are more boats there now than were in the past. But I suspect that you can still find plenty of areas where there are not other boats polluting the water.--if necessary pick up that 5 gallons of sea water you might need in a non polluted area.

Quote:
specific advice from any Cbrat that has installed a 6 to 8 gallon an hour watermaker that draws less than 15 amps.


I doubt that you will find anyone who has a water maker which only draws 15 amps and puts out 6 to 8 gallons an hour. in a compact space. The closest you will find is the Village Marine (Parker) "Little Wonder" 12 volts, 15 amps, 6 gph... (The Rainman 12 volt unit uses 32 amps...to give that type of output). Then there is the "neat and compact" part. Where are you going to put these components? Where have you put the refer and freezer? What other storage space will you give up (I assume that you probably already ditched the water heater.). You have 370 Watts of solar panels: are you going LiFeP04 batteries to save weight and space to fully utilize that amount of solar energy?

I don't know if you have queried the cruising forums--but I would check out the section on water makers. There are a number of queries there, and a lot more depth of knowledge than among the C Dory owners.

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Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
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danabigsur



Joined: 13 Mar 2015
Posts: 16
City/Region: Big Sur
State or Province: CA
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi from Dana and thanks for the reply.
No we would not be making water in the crowded dirty anchorages, certainly waiting until we were in a cleaner more open area.
Our V Berth water tank is directly in the middle of the bow. Also the entire area was solid fiberglass under the cushions, we then cut 2 hatch like openings either side of the centered water tank for clothes storage.
5 gal water tank long gone (only worked 110 anyway), no good cruising ... and we tucked a little 2 gal Bosch 110 hot water heater under our galley sink. I stay on the boat during my work week at our marina saving me 2 hrs of driving back & forth from Monterey to Big Sur .
If we converted our holding tank in the back, we would put a water bladder inside... the big challenge is getting to it, it’s pretty buried.
We have 2 110 watt solar panels permanently mounted on our cabin top. The extra 150 fits on top the Bimini only when cruising, otherwise stored off the boat, we have 2 house group 31 120 Amp hrs batteries regular water filled as that’ was what was recommended for our Suzuki engine. In the past we like to stay anchored is a place for several days at a time so no engine charging & of course no generator in this small of boat (nor wind generation) it’s all about the sun power !!
Our small refrigerator is just under the captain’s seat where it was when we bought this boat (just upgraded it to more energy efficient & quieter one) and the freezer is a portable ENGEL frig/freezer smallest lightweight plastic one they make. We like to barbecue & need to store enough for maybe 7-10 days out from shopping sources. We do hope & plan on being out in the Sea away from marinas for periods of time at a stretch.
We have gone round & round on all the water makers out there. The Venture 150 looks good to us but yes, takes up inside storage space not to mention the $$$ & install project.
They apparently don’t make the Kydadyn 80 anymore because of
chronic problems they had with those units ...so I’ve been told.
That’s the one we would have picked for it’s size to output & draw.
The Rainman 12V is much too high an energy draw on our total battery bank as it’s recommended to be 400 Amps & ours is much less. The only other option is the gas model. We would keep it out in the cockpit with a cover (for sitting) when not using it.
We carry gas for our dingy outboard anyway
We shall see. Think we’ll look into the holding tank to water tank option. Think on that one a while !!!
Wonder if anyone out there has done that ??
Thanks again for everyone’s input .
Fresh water lake cruising is so much easier!! But then again it’s not Mexico !!

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Micahbigsur@msn.com



Joined: 27 May 2019
Posts: 484
City/Region: Big Sur
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sierra
Photos: Sierra
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Spectra Ventura 150 will take up about the same space under the setee as the mermaid ac system we tossed and uses less amps than the Village that did not make the cut. The Rainman gasoline powered one has it's negatives also but obviously uses 0 amps. The water tank is in the center of the v-berth forward of the footwell. As a past professional boat builder and a member of several cruising forums I am well versed in almost all aspects of our rebuild of Sierra. I am looking for C-dory specific answers from a C-dory owner that has installed a watermaker.
We know what we need to cruise the way we like and opinions on whether we need a watermaker or not are not helping us. It sounds like we may be one of the first to build a months on the hook saltwater cruiser the way we envision Sierra will be.
Thanks, Micah
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JamesTXSD



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 7444
City/Region: from island boy to desert dweller
State or Province: AZ
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: "Wild Blue" (sold 9/14)
Photos: Wild Blue
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I do believe you will be the first to envision the CD-25 as a "months on the hook saltwater cruiser." There are plenty of folks here who use their boats to cruise for months at a time, but do so within the design capabilities of the boat. That is not to say your vision isn't achievable, just giving my opinion (based on years of cruising with the CD-25) that there will be trade-offs. Loading that boat for a month off the grid (food, fuel, water, supplies, gear) is going to make for one heavily loaded boat. Performance will suffer. Space (including "personal space") will be maxed out.

Doable? Sure, with a full understanding of the limitations of space. Is it "the best tool for the job"? I think most folks would question that. The CD-25 was a great cruising boat for us for years. We spent months at a time on it, practiced water and power conservation, (including the occasional jerry jug of water and fuel) and the boat took us to all kinds of great places. If I were looking to do month(s) at a time of self-contained use (before re-supplying), I would be looking for a boat with more native storage, range, and tankage; probably a motorsailor.

People have crossed oceans on boats smaller than the CD-25, but they have been purposely built for that task. That said, I will be following along here and wish you all the best. You two sound very capable.

This forum has a great wealth of how folks use their boats. Your intended use will expand that knowledge base.
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Micahbigsur@msn.com



Joined: 27 May 2019
Posts: 484
City/Region: Big Sur
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sierra
Photos: Sierra
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I meant cruising for months of the time in an area of Mexico with limited resources, Dana did mention that we want to be able to resupply every week to ten days or so. We have years of experience cruising that specific area so we know how to modify Sierra to suit our needs.
We had a sailboat permanently in Mexico for years and also one in California at the same time but I spent too much time on maintenance each year. We are experimenting with trailerable boats so that we can have one boat for both places
In the sailboat I built in Australia my crew of 5 and I sailed from Samoa to Monterey California, a voyage of 52 days at sea to windward for 5,800 miles. In those days it was all by sextant with no electronics, watermakers, solar or self steering. Catching rain squalls and using salt water foot pumps we still ended up with 40 gallons left out of 100. Obviously I build my boats thinking out of the box and every one has been very successful in meeting my goals at the time.
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ssobol



Joined: 27 Oct 2012
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C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SoBELLE
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 12:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Water maker Reply with quote

danabigsur wrote:
... Our C-Dory has a 20 gal fresh water tank (under the V Berth) and measured availability is 18 gals. ...


About your water tank, was it installed by the factory or after manufacture? Is it a custom tank or a purchased unit, if so what is the manufacturer and part number.

I have a 22 and I have been considering adding a tank to the forward compartment in the V-berth. But there are not many choices for tanks with a V-shape. There are square tanks, but they would not optimize the space utilization.

Thanks.
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Micahbigsur@msn.com



Joined: 27 May 2019
Posts: 484
City/Region: Big Sur
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sierra
Photos: Sierra
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The tank in our CD 25 appears to be v-shaped to some degree that I know they make, but it is hard to tell because during manufacture the whole area underneath the v-berth was foamed. We cut in hatches and removed a lot of the foam for more storage.
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JamesTXSD



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 7444
City/Region: from island boy to desert dweller
State or Province: AZ
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: "Wild Blue" (sold 9/14)
Photos: Wild Blue
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I missed the "being able to resupply every week to 10 days" part. That said, being conservative, I would think you would be able to get by with your installed fresh water tank and an aux tank installed where the former black tank was. That would eliminate the space and power needs of a water-maker.

I understand the trailering aspect of the CD-25; that was one of the key reasons we picked that boat when we bought ours. Also, I was in no way questioning your abilities or reasoning; simply offering an opinion and encouragement.

It has been a couple decades since we spent time along the Baja coast. Ruggedly beautiful area. Back then, we were able to buy water in 5 gallon jugs, delivered to where we were, in some places. You couldn't always count on it, though.

Best wishes with the prep and travels.
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Micahbigsur@msn.com



Joined: 27 May 2019
Posts: 484
City/Region: Big Sur
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sierra
Photos: Sierra
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We had a "30" gallon water tank on our Ranger tug, we spent a week out on the mainland side of the sea a couple of years ago on "the lost coast" (amazing cruising area we saw only one sailboat in a week and incredibly beautiful dessert hikes up out of the little cove anchorages and very easy to get to up above San Carlos) and our water just lasted the trip so a maybe 12 gallon ( hard to know what would fit into the black water tank?) waterbladder would be just enough. On our boat we would have to rip out the aft section of deck to put a proper water tank in it's place and even I am not that crazy! So this is the debate that Dana and I have been having that led to Dana's post, we have several hours a day of excess solar power so amps used is not a problem but for a built in watermaker storage space exchanged for a watermaker is a question, a portable gas powered Rainman watermaker does use very little gas but it is as hard to get as water and we don't have space for much of any jugs. It would be removable when back in the marina In Monterey, a plus, but uses valuable cocpit space though I would fabricate an aluminum box around it to use as a seat. After both of us cruising separately in the old days with basically literally nothing we now like a bit of comfort and luxury as long as it is installed "dead bolt" reliable but the cost is always factor, so we go round and round in our debate!
Thanks for taking the time to give us your input, Micah
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Micahbigsur@msn.com



Joined: 27 May 2019
Posts: 484
City/Region: Big Sur
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sierra
Photos: Sierra
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We had a "30" gallon water tank on our Ranger tug, we spent a week out on the mainland side of the sea a couple of years ago on "the lost coast" (amazing cruising area we saw only one sailboat in a week and incredibly beautiful dessert hikes up out of the little cove anchorages and very easy to get to up above San Carlos) and our water just lasted the trip so a maybe 12 gallon ( hard to know what would fit into the black water tank?) waterbladder would be just enough. On our boat we would have to rip out the aft section of deck to put a proper water tank in it's place and even I am not that crazy! So this is the debate that Dana and I have been having that led to Dana's post, we have several hours a day of excess solar power so amps used is not a problem but for a built in watermaker storage space exchanged for a watermaker is a question, a portable gas powered Rainman watermaker does use very little gas but it is as hard to get as water and we don't have space for much of any jugs. It would be removable when back in the marina In Monterey, a plus, but uses valuable cocpit space though I would fabricate an aluminum box around it to use as a seat. After both of us cruising separately in the old days with basically literally nothing we now like a bit of comfort and luxury as long as it is installed "dead bolt" reliable but the cost is always factor, so we go round and round in our debate!
Thanks for taking the time to give us your input, Micah
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