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LiFePO4 for house and AGM for start?
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Aurelia



Joined: 20 Aug 2009
Posts: 2288
City/Region: Gig Harbor
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 19 Angler
Vessel Name: Ari
Photos: Aurelia
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great info and I love this stuff...

The Sterling Battery to Battery chargers mentioned by Bob are a solid solution and I have installed them in two boats with the second still running strong after 5 years of salty use in an damp location. They are great for mixing chemistries and also voltages if you have a need for a 24 or 36 bank in addition to your 12v gear.

Great products and I used the procharge 12 to 12v and 12 to 24v versions.

https://www.sterling-power-usa.com/ip68batterytobatterycharger.aspx

This company also has some options for getting fancy with batteries and there is some support for Lithium-IRON-PHOSPHATE

https://www.yandina.com/index.htm

Greg

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Greg, Cindie & Aven
Gig Harbor
Aurelia - 25 Cruiser sold 2012
Now traveling in Ari the 19 "Cruiser"
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 17001
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

journey on wrote:
Bob,

I'm curious. You installed 200 a-hr of LiFePO4 batteries for the house and a group 24 interstate FLA battery for starting. Since there are a number of Li battery packs which will start an engine (see lithium starting batteries) why did you decide to use the FLA battery?

You have an 150 Honda outboard which has a small starter; so if Li batteries will start a truck, that Honda should be small potatoes. If you used the Li batteries, there is a lot of hardware of which you could get rid.

Boris


Hi Boris,
What I may have hidden away, is that the boat came with an interstate group 24 starting battery and two interstate group 27 batteries which were relatively new and in excellent condition.

Second, Battle Born has advised that their LiFePO4 batteries are not designed for starting loads. Now, it may be possible that the Honda will start easily from the Li battery bank...But it may also damage the $950 battery if inadvertently it is cranked too long a time. I have one of the "quick start" battery packs, and it would start a 350 hp diesel 8.3 L engine--so no question that a li ion battery will start larger engines. But these small packs are designed for a quick discharge of CCA of over 1000 amps.

Even after the house batteries give out (which I suspect may be a long time), I'll probably still go with a FLA or AGM start battery, and the Sterling Battery to battery charger. The reason is that the B to B charger has the proper profile and a temperature sensor for the LiFePO4 battery. Can you charge a li ion battery right off the outboard? Certainly. But, the outboard battery charging circuits are relatively dumb. They can continue to crank out 14.5 volts way beyond when the battery is at a full SOC, and damage the Li ion battery. So I don't see where I would have eliminated any hardware. I wanted the PSW inverter, I wanted a large and rapid battery charger, designed for LI ion batteries, and I would have needed the switches, cables and connectors.

Where I have heard of Ii ion batteries being a great mix for outboards, is with the bass tournament fisherman. They have large demands on the trolling motors. But most of these guys seem to be sticking with the Lead Acid starting batteries.

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Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL
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PaulNBriannaLynn



Joined: 26 Oct 2012
Posts: 618
City/Region: Savannah
State or Province: GA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: TBD
Photos: Lorelei
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just yesterday I replaced the battery on my old Harley FXR motorcycle, with a Shorai Lithium Iron starting battery. It has never cranked so hard when I tested the system, and I've gone through 3 lead acid batteries on this bike.

I also replaced the lead acid battery on a notoriously hard starting racing motorcycle I have around 5 years ago with the same brand lithium iron battery. I'm seriously impressed by how much cranking power it had then, and still does this many years later. That bike sits in a hot shed most of the year and does not live on a battery tender. It holds the charge for what seems like indefinitely and can crank for a long time. It also charges back up from the alternator faster then the lead acid batteries.

It would be a much bigger investment on a boat like a c-dory, but it is the future in my opinion. I don't have the knowledge of some others, but would love to follow along if someone makes the switch. The cost will have to come down before I would be the guinea pig.

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2009 Parker 23SE sold 10/2017
2003 22 cruiser sold 3/2016
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 17001
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Currently Suzuki web site states:

Quote:
Avoid using deep cycle battery, maintenance-free battery, lithium battery or gel cell battery.
.

I know that in the past (and maybe now) Yamaha and Mercury also had the same instructions. It may not just be the CCA (or MCA) but also the load on the charging circuit??? (as several posters on other forums have suggested.)

Obviously many of us have used AGM and maintenance free batteries with zero difficulty.
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hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 10032
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Down the road a(long ways) might be an electric trolling motor for a tender, and the Lithium something sounds like a very good way to go.

Might mean I need to carry a small generator on board though, or an alternative.

Harvey
SleepyC Moon


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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 17001
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hardee wrote:
Down the road a(long ways) might be an electric trolling motor for a tender, and the Lithium something sounds like a very good way to go.

Might mean I need to carry a small generator on board though, or an alternative.

Harvey
SleepyC Moon



The Torqeedo outboard covers those bases. It is light, has a lithium battery--no need for a separate battery or trolling motor. The Torqeedo charges from a 12 volt house battery system. A simple cord is all that is necessary. We have had our Torqeedo for over 7 years--works great--starts on the first turn of the handle!
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