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Advice on new TomCat purchase
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Sea Wolf



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 8650
City/Region: Redding
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1987
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sea Wolf
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTDT wrote:
. (Some clipped)

I suspect the 'best' anchor selection is right up there with choosing the best 'mate', the only common denominator may be using plenty of chain albeit my better-half is of the no-slack belief Laughing


Laugh of the week! Laughing

Thanks!

Joe Teeth Thumbs Up

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Sea Wolf, C-Brat #31
Lake Shasta, California

"Most of my money I spent on boats and women. The rest I squandered'. " -Annonymous
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BTDT



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 322
City/Region: Grand Lake Oklahoma
State or Province: OK
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: C- Lark Wine Down
Photos: C-Lark
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTDT wrote:
I keep a Honda 2200i on my swim-step in a polished aluminum diamond tread truck box from Tractor Supply (SKU #128240499), mounted on its back with the locking lid up.



My bad and the 30 minute edit scrooge caught me- FWIW Tractor Supply skew is #109167299 and at about half the price Embarassed

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John & Vicki Clark
C-Lark Wine Down
Tomcat 255
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Gulfcoastjohn



Joined: 03 Oct 2017
Posts: 78
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2010
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: CAT 'O MINE
Photos: CAT 'O MINE
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTDT,
Glad to read you’re in good humor…when you didn’t show at Hontoon again we all assumed you’d post that “ I THOUGHT about attending, but that gave me a brain tumor with a 6 month prognosis, and the neurosurgeon said that if I thought about it again, it would drop to 1 month.”

Think about attending next year.

On the other hand, maybe you shouldn’t even do that.

Just trailer on down.

PS To beat the 30 min edit rule, just type your missive into Word or any alternative, then after careful editing (which I should do but don’t) just copy and paste it into the ‘message’ box on C-Brats to start the 30 min clock.

Thanks for the link to the Honda box.
Cheers!
John

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John and Eileen Highsmith
2010 TC255 Cat O' Mine
Yamaha F150's
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Photo Op



Joined: 24 Jan 2019
Posts: 9
City/Region: Juneau
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2019
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: ViewFinder
Photos: ViewFinder
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought I should give all my C-brat advisors an update on what I am learning. We visited our Tomcat (in 3 pieces) at NMI in Bellingham a week ago. Greg and Michael from NMI, and Gino from Master Marine were very helpful in explaining the boat and options. We made the following decisions:

We went with a Webasto Air Top 2000 diesel heater with air piped to defrost, the berth, the dinette, and front row passengers. There will be a 6 gallon tank with a deck-level fill installed under the cockpit.

We are having a Sonic Hub 2.1 audio/video system installed that will be controlled by the SimRad plotter and can be driven from iPhones through BlueTooth.

Went with a Victron BMV-712 Battery Monitor.

The factory people told us of a problem they have experienced with mounting the counter-rotating engine on the starboard. They said there is a serious loss of control when docking - prop walk issues prevent pulling the stern into the dock. Because of this, they said people have reverted to the conventional arrangement, with the CR engine on the port.

I am still having trouble choosing the right props. The 4 bladed props, as recommended by many of you, have clear advantages, with the only downsides being a small loss of top end, and higher cost. However, it appears that Suzuki doesn’t make a 4 blade CR prop for the 175. I’d appreciate it if someone could tell me which prop manufacturer makes the 4 blade props that are used on your Tomcats.

We hope to have a final boat in a little over a month.

I will try to post some photos of the boat in my gallery.

Thanks again for the help.

Kurt and Bev

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Kurt & Bev
Douglas, AK
Tomcat 255 2019
19' Bayliner1993 to 2004
UH19P Hovercraft 1986 to 2008
http://beautifuljuneau.com
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BTDT



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 322
City/Region: Grand Lake Oklahoma
State or Province: OK
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: C- Lark Wine Down
Photos: C-Lark
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have had very good luck on prop fitting and purchase with Ken at PROPGODS on the hull truth forums. Lots of great feedback and really knows his stuff. He is based out of Sarasota FL but I don't recall his phone number, but you can contact him via the hull truth forum

Also Mark at Wefings Marine would be a good source
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What Shore



Joined: 13 Aug 2010
Posts: 26
City/Region: Salisbury
State or Province: NC
C-Dory Year: 2017
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Here After
Photos: What Shore
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now this is getting somewhere. Greg is a super good guy & very knowledgeable & was very helpful to me when I first bought my boat. My hats off to him. My boat was set up by Wefings with the cr on the starboard side. As i’ve said before it runs great but responds poorly in reverse. The cr on the starboard side may be the issue. I was told the Suzuki 175 rotation can easily be reversed? I don’t know but that’s what I was told. I’ll have to investigate this as this could fix my only complaint. Keep us updated!
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Photo Op



Joined: 24 Jan 2019
Posts: 9
City/Region: Juneau
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2019
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: ViewFinder
Photos: ViewFinder
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another quick update:

What Shore - it sounds like you are experiencing the problem the factory guys told us about. They told of an instructor who was teaching new owners how to dock their TomCat. The instructor told them there was no way he could teach the owners to dock if he couldn't dock it himself. Could you explain a little more about the problem with backing - does it want to turn to one side but not the other?

I was wrong about the props - Master Marine was able to find a Suzuki counter-rotating prop for the 175. We are going with Suzuki Watergrip 15.25" x 20" props. I will report back on how they work out.
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What Shore



Joined: 13 Aug 2010
Posts: 26
City/Region: Salisbury
State or Province: NC
C-Dory Year: 2017
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Here After
Photos: What Shore
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ll admit I’m not a seasoned captain but have ran & owned several boats thru the years. I wasn’t fortunate enough to spend time on the boat with someone who has ran a TomCat before nor have I been on another TC. The problem I’m having is when you engage the shift levers in opposite directions I feel the boat should start twisting the bow in the opposite direction of the forward engine. (Ex port forward starboard reverse bow should twist in its own length bow moving starboard). This does slowly happen but the reverse propoulsion is weak. This is fine until you have strong wind & current. With both engines on idle or just above the boat will veer in the right direction but not twist. Usually will have to run reverse engine up around 1200 rpms & forward on idle for it to begin to complete with each other. I can make it happen & put it where I want but it just seems it doesn’t happen as easily as it should. Maybe this is how a cat responds I don’t know as like I said I was never on one till I brought it home. Before anyone assume ahh the guy can’t drive lol, I’ve had a couple different friends of mine who make a living as captains on board & they had the same responses. I always assumed it was the props since they were cupped but after reading more I’m not so sure. Please tell me what I’m doing wrong.
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20779
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We usually docked starboard side to, with the counter rotating engine on the starboard side. We didn't have any problems. We come into docks slowly at about 30* to the dock, and swing engines in reverse thrust of the port engine, to bring the boat to starboard--and reverse the port (clockwise engine), a moderate amount --in the 1000 RPM range. If necessary (rare) a little idea forward on the starboard (counter clockwise) engine-

This is not a dramatic as many single engine boats, or inboards. Occasionally more speed or a complete forward/reverse scenario are necessary deeding on wind and current.

The Tom Cat was harder to "Walk" sideways than a conventional twin screw 42 foot boat with 24" props. I believe the increased difficulty to swing the boat's stern rapidly as in a 22 or 25, is because of the "keel effect" of the long straight hard chines of the two hulls of the Tom Cat.

Coming into a starboard side dock, I usually would approach slowly, allowing the vessel to glide, and steering with the engines as rudders. As the boat was close to the dock, I would turn the motors to port (giving thrust to starboard in reverse, and continuing to push the bow toward the dock---a short burst of the port engine (clockwise rotation) would swing the stern in. Part of the problem is that many instantly put the starboard (counter rotating--counter clockwise) in reverse.
But that is my experience with my docking situations. The question I would have is what is the performance under cruising conditions with the engines in the "conventional" position? To me that is more important that the docking. With Suzuki 150's and a light boat we hit just under 50 mph at 6,000 RPM. With the loaded boat we could get in the mid 40's at about 5800 RPM. We often cruised in the low 30's.

The boat looks to be coming along nicely. It is most interesting to see the floor layout for the interior as separate piece--this is also actually the "wing deck" upper part--which is critical in the hulls stability.

Exciting times for Kurt and Bev!

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Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL
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What Shore



Joined: 13 Aug 2010
Posts: 26
City/Region: Salisbury
State or Province: NC
C-Dory Year: 2017
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Here After
Photos: What Shore
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Bob, Thanks for the input. I’ve been trying to use just the engines as I have in larger twin screws. It sounds like the cat hull requires you to direct some propulsion with the wheel to counter act the hull. I'll Keep
Playing. I’m pushing 50 mph loaded. A bit over when light. That’s the reason I haven’t changed anything. I cruise around 4000- 4200 usually around 30 mph depending on current. I can’t argue with performance so guess I’ll adapt to its characteristics when docking.
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20779
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your experience, and looking at your 22 " pitch props, tend to suggest that the 22" is good for the 175's. I went back over my posts, and the Tom Cat I Sea Trialed at Wefing's had 16" x 20.5 props. I suspect I had the same on mine. . I did have a set of lower pitch, but never used them. Kept aboard as back ups...
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cmetzenberg



Joined: 04 Jan 2014
Posts: 367
City/Region: Santa Barbara
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Kanaloa
Photos: Kanaloa
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thataway wrote:
Your experience, and looking at your 22 " pitch props, tend to suggest that the 22" is good for the 175's. I went back over my posts, and the Tom Cat I Sea Trialed at Wefing's had 16" x 20.5 props. I suspect I had the same on mine. . I did have a set of lower pitch, but never used them. Kept aboard as back ups...


Hi Bob,
I've always been impressed with the numbers you've gotten out of your tomcat. I've maxed mine out at 38 mph with full tanks. I have 2007 honda 150s with 19" props. Think I should up the pitch?
Regards,

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Conrad Metzenberg

07' Tomcat 255 "Kanaloa"
87' Boston Whaler Guardian 17 (BlackFlag, 03-14)
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20779
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Conrad,

That was about the same I found on Dive Cat when I sea trialed her out of Marina Del Rey. I believe it is the difference between the Suzuki and Honda engines. A friend put a 150 Suzuki on his C Dory 25 and picked up almost 4 mph on the top end.

What is the RPM you get out of your Hondas at WOT? Are they setup with the counter rotating on the Starboard side? Are the props 4 blade SS? Almost all of the owners with Hondas get lower speeds than the Suzuki 150/175's.
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Gulfcoastjohn



Joined: 03 Oct 2017
Posts: 78
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2010
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: CAT 'O MINE
Photos: CAT 'O MINE
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What Shore,
Your experiences with relatively weak reverse thrust and using throttle-only steering around the docks strikes me as normal for the TC255. With any wind or current, add some Forward RPM to the motor ‘outside’ your intended turn. Consider turning the wheel over to max while in neutral PRIOR to engaging the F and R gears; this gets the props ‘aimed’ correctly prior to actually applying power and moving.

Doing a 360 in a TomCats own length with any wind or current is challenging compared to no wind or current, but you’ll get there. There is no substitute for many hours at your own helm for your boating skills with your own boat.
Remember engine exhaust is being blown out the prop hubs, even in Neutral, which subtracts from the power of the engine in R but adds to the power of the engine in F, and you can’t stop that effect unless you shut down the engines.

I empirically feel that I have twice the nuanced helm control in forward vs in reverse, even with 4 blade props. All props work way better in F vs in R.
We have found Bob’s notes above to work very well.

Our wet slip is directly broadside to a typical 12-15k sea breeze when we end our avg boating day at max winds. That is a lot of wind pushing on the cabin. Nothing separates us from the adjacent boat except an end piling. We pivot on that piling in Forward towards a wall of fenders. The rub rail is made to take it. I would never consider ‘backing in’ under those conditions…way too much helm and engine drama.

A 6” Schafer 316SS 2 bolt cleat mounted vertically near the cabin step (like Bob’s album but without the cam cleats) is a great sub for a mid-ship cleat for boat control when docking with a crewmember. He/She/It can secure that first, then fore and aft for total boat control.

Photo Op:
Your pic of the floor/bridgedeck would seem to be a nice place to request the factory install a midship cleat on both sides, but I bet they will decline. All the hull 12v, sensors and binnacle rigging will be hung just under the starboard gunnel horizontal walkway. To adjust the bolts there would require removing the water heater and possibly interfere with the rigging. So install your own cleats as above.

Also, install 12” SS handrails over the eyebrow (so there is no roof core issues) above the stbd waste deck plate and the port water fill deckplate. At any marina, one of these will be on the ‘wrong’ side of your finger pier. I had to hacksaw off some of the bolt length due to the angle heading over toward the cabin, making it difficult to put on a big fender washer and nylon locknut.

Also, one at the aft end of the cabin on both sides, and over the aft door but under the bimini.

Those Brats in their 20’s can ignore all this. In the over-60 group, ‘falls’ are often a life-changing tragedy. (My 55 year old brother is a Physical Therapy Assistant who says to his elderly patients re falls, ‘We don’t use the F-word around here!).

Happy Mods!

John
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cmetzenberg



Joined: 04 Jan 2014
Posts: 367
City/Region: Santa Barbara
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Kanaloa
Photos: Kanaloa
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thataway wrote:
Conrad,

That was about the same I found on Dive Cat when I sea trialed her out of Marina Del Rey. I believe it is the difference between the Suzuki and Honda engines. A friend put a 150 Suzuki on his C Dory 25 and picked up almost 4 mph on the top end.

What is the RPM you get out of your Hondas at WOT? Are they setup with the counter rotating on the Starboard side? Are the props 4 blade SS? Almost all of the owners with Hondas get lower speeds than the Suzuki 150/175's.


I think that's it. You'd think 300hp is 300hp, but i guess not. I'm just shy of 6000 rpm @ wot. yes i have the counter rotating screws to lift the stern. 3 bladed props.
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