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At anchor CPAP machine
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joconnor@whidbey.net



Joined: 26 Aug 2018
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:19 am    Post subject: At anchor CPAP machine Reply with quote

Any suggestions how to use my CPAP machine when not plugged in to shore power?
We don't have a generator either.

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hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It all depends on what machine you have, or that you are planning on using on your boat. In general, any machine that will not run on direct 12VDC will cost you more in electrical power, because to run an inverter to change 12VDC into 110AC and then convert back to some voltage other than 12VDC looses some power in the changes up and back down again.

Also, using CPAP on a boat, unless you are plugged into shore power, is highly energy consumptuous if you are running a heated humidifying chamber. There are some other options if you feel you need the humidity, but in most cases, it is not necessary to run the humidifier to still get the therapeutic benefit of the CPAP.

What machine are you using? and what pressures is it running at? That info could be helpful?

If you prefer not to disclose that here, you are welcome to send me a PM and I can help there.

Harvey (RPSGT)
Retired Sleep Guy
SleepyC Moon


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Saxe Point



Joined: 24 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’m interested in this as well. I never use the humidifier, which is good. My pressure is 8.3. I’m using a Respironics Dream Station. Really looking for a solution for camping, on the water etc.
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DavidM



Joined: 24 Dec 2017
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suspect that you will need a DC powered "travel" CPAP to be able to use it on your C-Dory's batteries.

One spec for the auto Dreamstation says it uses 80 W AC power. A cheap cigarette lighter inverter can power it, but it will use about 7 amps DC which will quickly run your batteries down.

The DC powered travel units use much less power and sometimes are available with Li batteries for portable use. If the voltage is 12V then you can wire it to a cigarette lighter plug to use with your C-Dory's battery system.

David
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Dreamer



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harvey's the expert in this field. I got a 12v adapter for my Respironics Air-Sense 10. I turn off the humidifier and hose heating. It seems to use very little power overnight.
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hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most newer CPAP machines do not run directly on 12VDC, but run on a “brick” or voltage converter, “transformer” of some sort. The 2 most common CPAP machine suppliers are ResMed and Respironics. The common voltages, though they both, (and all others too, as far as I know) run off a 110VAC plug into the wall at home, and convert the operating voltage to the manufactures specs. ResMed is 18 VDC, Respironices is 12 – 14 VDC. They have to convert the running voltage for the machine through a transformer that starts by running on 110VAC (standard home wall plug.)

Some things to know about CPAP machines.
1. There is CPAP = Continuous Positive Air Pressure (runs at a steady, set pressure) and,
2. There is a different type, APAP or Auto (adjustable) or Variable Positive Airway Pressure.
3. The Positive Air Pressure delivered is in cm of water pressure, (cmH2O) and
4. Has no relation to the humidity level or heater setting for the water chamber.
5. The heater setting determines the humidity level of the air that you will be breathing.
6. The warmer the temperature setting, the higher the humidity and, (in most cases generally), the more comfortable for the device wearer.

Now the kicker, AND you knew this was coming:

Running a heater uses electricity and that takes battery power. The heater on most units is adjustable from low to high and on some you can turn it off completely. Running the CPAP with the heater on will use more battery than with it off. Running it with the heat turned up will use more than with it turned down to low, or off. This allows you to use water, although it will be cold, and depending on the ambient temperature, there will still be some added humidity in the inhaled air. Yes, it will be cool to cold, depending on the flow, pressure and ambient temp. But it is still more humid than with no water at all.

7. With the temperature setting or heat setting at “OFF” there is no battery power used for heating so
8. You have more power to assign just to the PAP (Positive Airway Pressure) device.
9. With regard to the heated humidity use. IF you have a heated hose, you will also need to set it to manual / and,or turn the hose heater to off.


If you have a machine that will run on straight 12VDC, you will be better off as far as power consumption goes. Having to run either through a transformer or inverter means there is going to be an effective loss of power. If you have a device that will plug directly into the 12VDC Cig Plug, and does not power a heater or humidifier, you will be using the least amount of power possible and still be able to have the proper CPAP levels to be therapeutic.

Some things to consider: Do you need the humidity? Can you get by on a lower pressure? (That depends on your AHI score and Apnea diagnosis.) What manufacturer's machine do you have? and Is there any chance you might use a second machine, just for travel?

I hope this is some help. If you have any more questions, be sure and ask, and I'm glad to help.

There are several newer “Travel CPAP” units available. Some have 12VDC (Cig lighter) plugs, and those that do will have Cig lighter plugs available. Some have proprietary batteries that will power them. When using battery powered units, the useful battery run time will vary depending on the prescribed CPAP pressures required. Legitimate providers of this equipment will require a prescription even if the device in not being paid for by insurance. Medicare will cover 80% of the cost for the first (primary) machine with replacement in the 6th year of adequate therapeutic use. Most likely, if you are looking for a second device it will be on your “dime”.

Check my tag line.

Harvey
SleepyC Moon

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hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roger, Thanks for the promo, but if I am, I may be a bit rusty. I do still do some consulting, but I am not in it on the day to day way that kept me current with the latest progress. Mostly, I jsut want to be able to help people get good healthy rest.

Harvey
SleepyC Moon

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SEA3PO



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So...Why not buy a small Honda Generator and not have to worry about it ?they don't use much fuel or make much noise...really no downside..

I have a small generator and I use it much more than I had thought I would...I sold the big generator that I had at my house and use the small generator to run a light and the television.. during power outages...it will run a really long time on a single tank of fuel.

Joel
SEA3PO
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hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joel, Will your Honda Gen run all night - 7-8 hours on one tank of gas? and how big is that tank? I know the Honda's are really quiet but in some places you might be endangering your health and that of those with you (as in you could get pneumonia if you had to swim for your life during the night Laughing

If you are running 2 or more CPAPs it might be worth it, although I have run 2 on my boat (average of 7 hours each) many nights. If I run the boat during the day, moving for an hour or so I am back up to full charge for the night.

Harvey
SleepyC Moon

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colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First the Generator issue. I have the Honda 2000, and I have run it all night. At the econ setting, mine ran about 9 hours, with fuel left. Ok, I did this when the temp was 15 degrees outside, and I didn't want to drain my battery to the point of it freezing while running my heater and a cpap. But, in normal boating weather temps, I don't see the need for a generator unless I want to use a microwave or need 110 vts for something else...

I have a Resmed CPap that I use on the boat, without the humidity chamber. My setting is 9 I believe. This Cpap does not have a 12 vt plug, and needs 110, although I'm pretty sure Harvey told me earlier that the big box on the chord steps it down. I use a small inverter (maybe 200 -300 watt). I have a group 27 house battery. I start the night with a full charge. I run the Cpap 8-9 hours, my webasto heater, several hours of an LED light on before going to bed to read, and if on the hook, an LED Anchor light. I've never woken up with less than 11.9-12.1 volts when the heater glow plug kicks on, otherwise about 12.2-12.3 volts. (Battery starts with 13.6 vts or so). So it's my belief that the Cpap (without the humidity chamber) takes very little power. We all know LED's are low power. And probably the only thing on the Webasto drawing much is the glow plug when it first kicks in the heat. Just my two cents. Colby
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forrest



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use a cpap and when I go camping I don't bother using one. Batteries to run mine cost $800. Is it that big a deal if you miss a couple nights?
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DBBRanger



Joined: 11 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:43 am    Post subject: My Numbers Reply with quote

I have my Respironics CPAP Pro onboard connected with an OEM cord directly to a “cigarette lighter” plug. The unit runs on 12V normally converted from a “brick” plugged into 110V. Using the 12V cord, there is no conversion then. The cord was about $25 online. Here are my amp usage numbers:

Plugged in, not turned on: .07A
In use - CPAP pressure = 7cmH2O: .2 - .6A depending on the breathing cycle
In use with heated tube set at “3”: 1.5 - 2.0A
In use with heated tube and humidifier set at “3”: 4.0 - 4.3A when heater in humidifier is on.

I have not measured the total amphours used overnight. Hope that helps.
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hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:01 pm    Post subject: Re: My Numbers Reply with quote

DBBRanger wrote:
I have my Respironics CPAP Pro onboard connected with an OEM cord directly to a “cigarette lighter” plug. The unit runs on 12V normally converted from a “brick” plugged into 110V. Using the 12V cord, there is no conversion then. The cord was about $25 online. Here are my amp usage numbers:

Plugged in, not turned on: .07A
In use - CPAP pressure = 7cmH2O: .2 - .6A depending on the breathing cycle
In use with heated tube set at “3”: 1.5 - 2.0A
In use with heated tube and humidifier set at “3”: 4.0 - 4.3A when heater in humidifier is on.

I have not measured the total amphours used overnight. Hope that helps.


DDBRanger, Thank you for the numbers. Good to see that. It sounds like you are running the same unit, ( but mine is older and does not have the heated hose capability), I am, but I run at 13 cmH2O pressure. If I remember, it runs at about 2-3 amps, with not heat or LED's on.

The Respironics machines run on 12VDC. The older ones had the voltage converter in the machine itself so they didn't need the "brick". The newer ones will have a brick.
The ResMed machine run on an 18 volt system. They will also have a brick.

Both can be run off an inverter. For what it is worth, Way back when, I was told that if I chose to use an inverter, I should be looking at something that had at least 500 watt output.

Harvey
SleepyC Moon

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hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

forrest wrote:
I use a cpap and when I go camping I don't bother using one. Batteries to run mine cost $800. Is it that big a deal if you miss a couple nights?


There are alternatives, battery wise and other wise.

Without seeing your sleep study report I wouldn't guess on if it is a big deal to miss a couple of nights. Obstructive Sleep Apnea means there are periods of no breathing. How long they last, and how low your oxygen level goes will determine how big a deal it is to miss CPAP therapy for a night. Then again, it may be a big deal for those you camp with and you may be the only one getting any sleep -- even though it will not be as restful as it could be -- you may be keeping camping companions awake. Might even be keeping the bears or wolves away too.

I have seen apnea periods near the 2 minute mark, and oxygen levels go as low as 30% as a result of not breathing for that time, not just once but many times in a row. That neighborhood (low oxygen level) puts a huge strain on the heart. At some point it may elect to succumb to the lack of oxygen.

Of that situation it might be said " Grandpa died peacefully in his sleep."

(Sorry, I don't mean to sound like a scare tactic, but after 40+ years I have seen the reality. For me, that is not a chance I want to take.)

Harvey
SleepyC Moon

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lloyds



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a resmed and used a 450 watt inverter to run it. I was running it off of a group 31 battery. I also ran my engle fridge at the same time off the same battery and as long as I ran the engine the next day for an hour or two everything worked out fine. I would think with a decent solar panel and a little sun you could make out even better. Maybe only have to run like 4 or 5 times during a week.
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