Southeast Alaska Charts Wanted

Ken O · Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:41 pm Post subject:

We've kayaked much of SEAK for many years and I don't think I have more than 20 charts in our portfolio. And our kayak has an even smaller chart table than our C-Dory. I would just use editing software to break the charts into chunks that would fit on the kayak deck. As a person that makes my living keeping computers operational, I have a lot more faith in paper...

thataway · Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:53 pm Post subject:

I can certainly understand using small segments in a Kayak. I don't know how long the entire coastline of SE AK is--but I have spent 4 seasons in the Cal 46 exploring AK, leaving Wa. in April and returning in Oct--and then another month in the C Dory 25. I covered a lot of waterways that I could--and each time took different routes and explored different areas. There is a whole lot of coastline there! There are C dory members who live there and have far better knowledge than I.

The low mean failure time of marine chart plotters is pretty impressive. Then you add in the easy and cheap redundancy of a second (and probably a 3rd hand held) GPS with all of the charts, it comes up in the very very unlikely possibility of failure. I have been using GPS and plotters since 1990 (before then I had used Sat Nav which was the pre cursor to GPS) and made several trans Atlantic and Trans Pacific passages, several of my close friends have done several circumnavigations each--with zero failures in the chart plotters.

Contra to that I have had a number of computer failures in far less time.

Even though I have crossed oceans long before GPS, using a sextant, and coastal navigation with depth finder and radio beacon as well as sextant--all using paper charts--I have far more faith in the MDF we have today for accurate navigation.

You cover relatively limited area at any one time in a Kayak--I have canoed and kayaked--most of the time with mark one eyeball navigation and a very simple map or chart. That is different than a 20 knot C Dory which will cover 1000 miles or more in a month.

You probably don't have "room" for on the of the Atlas books or wonderful guide books on your kayak--but they are fine for the C Dory--not only in SE AK, but all thru the River Sytems, ICW''s and coastal navigation of USA.

On the other hand, would you be willing to give up a modern GPS, especially in foggy or rough weather in a larger boat than a kayak? Not i.

Ken O · Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:21 pm Post subject:

All good points Bob, as always. I just don't like to see people put all of their faith in electronic devices. I will look forward to better performance from chart plotters compared to computers. My initial experience with my Lowrance unit and the people who make and support it has been very positive. Still, for me, there's nothing like a nice big detailed chart to study and plan my travels.

Hunkydory · Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:47 am Post subject:

We’ve explored in our CD 22 around 12,000 miles in SE Alaska & many hundreds of miles more in a motorized kayak & inflatable boats. I started out using a combination of paper & electronic charts & in 2004, when we lost our electronic navigation in a incident in Ford’s Terror, we continued to explore using paper charts until a new computer & soft ware arrived. Since then & now having multiple plotters with the added iPhone & iPad using Navionics makes me feel like Bob & others, very comfortable leaving the paper behind. I do as mentioned before still carry aboard the large overview FineEdge chart. For planning future trips or checking out areas ahead for more detail on the go, a IPad with Navionics is hard to beat.. I did use a Garmin Colorado small gps when on the rubber inflatable or kayak, but now it stays in the ditch bag & the iPhone with Navionics goes on the rubber inflatable cruises. At this point on future trips, I wouldn’t hesitate to cruise SE Alaska in any of the places we’ve been using only a IPad & iPhone with the Navionics app & the large overview chart.

Jay

thataway · Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:53 am Post subject:

Jay's post reminded me that we had navigated the entire coast of Yugoslavia in 1984 using a road map. The scale was accurate. We knew Lat and Long of several points, scaled it out for the whole map. We also had a guide book written in German (which neither of us speak or read well --to the extent that one evening we ordered "horse steaks" Crying or Very sad

We went slowly and relied on eyeballs and digital depth sounder.

RobLL · Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:36 pm Post subject:

What's with Garmin? Ten years ago friend and I found them largely unreliable for car trips. When I first got my boat (came with Lawrence) people on line here were very happy with Garmin.

thataway · Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:52 pm Post subject:

Not sure what you mean by being "unreliable". I have found occasionally they will have a thru road, with a gate over it, or more like a goat trail...But I have used Garmin in my vehicles as long as Garmin has been around. Seem about as good as anyone--maybe Google maps is better for the precise location. Garmin gives my house as about 100 yards down the street. But Garmin marine GPS when inside the house, shows what room you are in. I would say spot on with in 30' 90% of the time. Now charts may be off....But that is true for all cartography. Some surveys were done 150 years ago, and not updated much. I have found all of my Garmin units to be reliable.

RobLL · Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:19 pm Post subject:

Misdirections to the Getty museum, so long wrong that there was a sign on the road saying it did not go to the Getty. Putting us on a 40 mile unpaved road in Death Valley (and other places). Tried to find a VA hospital with a variety of labels - none worked. Fortunately the semi-smart phone did. Other people may have had better luck. I did catch all the errors in a timely manner.

thataway · Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:35 pm Post subject:

The Getty is impossible to get to anyway! Smile

But on some back roads the Garmin is wrong--but for are Rand McNally--Never used Tom Tom... Waze has gotten us routed around accidents with good routes, and agree the Apple, Google Maps are generally good.

SnowTexan · Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:05 pm Post subject:

thataway · Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:43 pm Post subject:

[quote="SnowTexan"

Shocked

I feel like I should be doing ethnographic research into this c brat culture. I think I am generally An adventurous person sometimes, until I sit down to casually read a thread on paper charts and gps and it takes me to the deck of a boat holding a road map in pre-war Yugoslavia.[/quote]

In 1984, Yugoslavia was certainly a very interesting place. We didn't see any of the ethnic divisions which lead to the war. However it was definitely a communist nation, and we were very aware of its effect on the populace. Our children were our entry into their culture. I was also amazed by the amount of smuggling of goods going on along the coast.

There was virtually no pleasure boating among the inhabitants. We met people who would save up their fuel coupons for fuel for a week's vacation for a 10 hp Diesel engine in a old converted wooden fishing boat.