The C-Brats Forum Index
HomeForumsMy TopicsCalendarEvent SignupsMemberlistOur C-DorysThe Brat MapPhotos

Restoration of a 1999 C-Dory 22 Cruiser
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The C-Brats Forum Index -> All C-Dorys, All The Time
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 12632
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul, You are welcome, and way ahead of me in carpentry, boat building and mechanical technical skills. AND this is a great place so there are lots of good, smart and experienced folks here that are very helpful.

Harvey
SleepyC Moon

_________________
Though in our sleep we are not conscious of our activity or surroundings, we should not, in our wakefulness, be unconscious of our sleep.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
olsurfdog



Joined: 13 Nov 2009
Posts: 178
City/Region: Carmel Valley
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1989
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Summer
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PCG, great write up!
Yes, as Dr Bob said, be sure to seal up all penetrations into the core by undercutting the hole, filling with thickened epoxy and then redrilling for the fastening. This gives some solid support to whatever is fastened (no crushing of the core) and keeps any water that gets past bedding out of the core. Unfortunately, this is expensive for the builder to do so most don’t take this step. Dr Bob has pics of how to do this in his Thataway pictures. He also as a host of other excellent tutorials there. There are also other descriptions in the forums. A search should turn these up.

_________________
Michael
______
I am where I am
Because I was where I was
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
pcg



Joined: 31 Aug 2018
Posts: 405
City/Region: Sherwood
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 1999
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Quest
Photos: pcg
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Preliminary damage assessment…
Here is a summary of my preliminary damage assessment. I’ve documented most of these areas in my photo album.

Gelcoat damage:

In general, the boat is cosmetically a real mess. The gelcoat has numerous chips and spider and stress cracks on the topside. Some of these have been poorly repaired and painted over. There are also numerous small scratches in the gelcoat below the waterline. The gelcoat damage gives me the most concern because I have no experience repairing it. At any rate, much of it I plan on sanding away because I want to know if and where the fiberglass is cracked underneath.

Fiberglass damage:

There is damage to the port side of the boat that I presume happened when the boat rolled against the dock. This includes a crack in the port roof and a possible crack (as evidenced by gelcoat cracks) in the port gunnel area.

There are some tabbed areas where gelcoat is cracked and the fiberglass may be as well. The worst of these is at the bottom of the berth area bulkhead, on the port side of the opening. This may be related to the hull damage under the trailer bung.

There is a large gelcoat crack (indicating possible fiberglass crack underneath) at the forward end of the potty storage area, on the upper starboard corner.

A semi-critical cored area that will need to be repaired is the deck at the bow, where the anchor roller bolts tore out. I’m not too concerned about rot here because moisture was only present for a few hours at this location. My biggest concern is to make sure it is thoroughly dry and that any soft or missing core is replaced and the area properly sealed. I haven't removed the deck pipe yet, but I will do so when I finish stripping the hardware. I suspect that the opening through the core was not properly sealed and there will be core damage here as swell.

There is core damage in both sides of the cockpit deck caused by improperly mounted rod holders. There is also an ugly crack in starboard cockpit deck caused by above. I will also be checking for core damage in other deck penetrations such as fuel and water fill locations.

The areas I am most concerned about are the cockpit floor and transom. There are no obvious soft spots, but both areas have holes that were probably not properly sealed, and there are some small cracks in the gelcoat around the top edge of the transom corners that may indicate cracked fiberglass and subsequent damaged core.

Lastly, there is that unknown repair that was made in the cored portion of the hull. At the very least I’ll be sanding away the rectangular painted patch on the bottom of the hull to try to determine what was done. I may also open this area up from inside the cabin floor. That would allow me to examine the core and make any needed repairs.

I’m encouraged by the fact that all users told me that the boat, with very few exceptions, was rarely stored in the water overnight. This is evidenced by the fact that the bottom is clean gelcoat - no bottom paint was ever applied, and there is no evidence that barnacles were ever scraped off.

Other damage:
The front of the bow rail is broken off and the breaks are not clean (i.e. the tubing is crimped at the break). If I can’t do a clean repair then I’ll weld up a new bow rail. In either case, this will be my excuse to finally get a TIG welder.

Final damage assessment will have to wait until I have all hardware stripped and gelcoat has been sanded away from suspect areas. That won't happen until next fall as I have other more pressing projects to finish first.

The final task I wanted to do right away was to remove foam in the berth storage area to check for moisture. See my next post for details.

_________________
Paul
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pcg



Joined: 31 Aug 2018
Posts: 405
City/Region: Sherwood
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 1999
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Quest
Photos: pcg
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Foam removal…

There were three things driving my desire to remove foam under the berth area.
1) Storage. We want more storage space.
2) Battery location. I want to get as much weight off the stern as possible. I also want the battery management hardware inside and out of the weather, but close to the batteries. I am thinking that just forward of the forward cabin bulkhead might be a good location, so this will give me that option.
3) To allow moisture to escape. I’d read of other C-Dory owners discovering moisture in the foam when they removed it. For obvious reasons, if there was moisture in there, I wanted it out. The only way to find out and the only way to remove moisture if it was present, was to remove the foam.

First of all, thank you to the first C-Dory owner who had the courage to do this! I was hesitant to start at first because, after all, this is a major alteration that would be almost impossible to reverse. I first searched for a small plug that other owners had found, which indicates that the area was foamed. I found none so I thought maybe my boat had no foam. With that in mind, I decided to first check for moisture by installing an inspection plate on the floor in the berth area, where the Porta-Potty is stored.

Surprise! When I cut out a circular area for the inspection plate I found it was foamed to the top, and the foam was dry! My relief was short-lived, however, as I began to dig it out. There is a 2" space between the floor and the hull at this location that is completely filled with foam, and the bottom inch of it was wet. You can see this in the photo in my album that the bottom portion of the foam is darker in color. There was no standing water, but if you took a handful of the stuff you could squeeze out water drops.

That cinched the deal and I began thinking through how I wanted to cut up the berth area. At first I thought I would put drawers in the Porta-Potty area, to make access to storage easier. Otherwise access would have to be on top, under the cushions – not convenient. Then I realized that the bottom of the storage area was not flat, which would make the design of drawers problematic.

I ended up cutting three hatches on the top, one on either side and one at the back. These are accessible only by removing the sleeping cushions, but they give access to much more storage area than drawers would. I may still build a drawer into the rear of the Porta-Potty storage space. It would protrude into the opened up area accessed by the rear hatch, but would at least allow a portion of that space to be easily accessed, and the fact that that area can also be accessed from the top makes the installation of a drawer easier.

I then tunneled underneath the floor of the portable toilet storage area, just forward of where the hull coring ends and between the two rear storage spaces. This provides plenty of room to run battery cables, should I decide to store batteries in this area.

The foam removal was pretty straightforward. Others have documented it and I did as well in my photo album. To core underneath the floor I sharpened the end of a piece of 3/4 steel pipe and hammered it into the foam. I pushed the foam cores out of the pipe with a wooden dowel. Once I was all the way through, I used a small putty knife to enlarge the area. The fact that this tunnel goes underneath the round access hole I cut in the floor, made this task much easier.

The one surprise was the discovery of a somewhat sloppy application of something that appears to be bondo, on the hull over the keel region. So much was applied that two large blobs of it were squeezed out from under the floor of the portable toilet storage area when that section was lowered onto the hull. These chunks sort of glued themselves to the hull, but came up easily with a slight tug. The hull was wet underneath them.

So where does this moisture come from? I tasted it, expecting it to be salty, but there was only a very faint sensation of saltiness. Mainly the taste was somewhat sour and yucky, as one can imagine it would be. I may eventually remove the foam all the way up to the anchor locker, in an effort to determine where this moisture came in. This will have to wait until next fall though. For now I'm glad I got this area opened up so it can dry out.

What’s next? The only other thing I may do to the boat this winter is remove the huge ugly (but very functional) rub rail. I could wait until next fall, but I’m curious to see what’s underneath it and I’m not sure I can wait until then. I’ll be replacing it eventually, not sure with what.

Other than that, I have lots of learning and planning to do. I want to have all aspects of the boat design finished before I start fiberglass repair work next fall, as I will likely be making small modifications to the existing fiberglass as well. Also, I want to thoroughly research the repair and application of gelcoat, repair and application of non-skid surfaces, and application of various paints such as Awlgrip.

I’m so glad I have this site to post questions – more will be coming!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nimrod



Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 268
City/Region: Mount Vernon
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1996
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: 'Berta's Boy
Photos: 'Berta's Boy
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you might also consider putting your batteries and batt mgt hardware under the aft dinette seat. You'd accomplish the same goal with a simpler install and a shorter wire run from your OB.

Pictures of my setup in my album.

Best of luck on your rebuild. Sounds like fun (mostly).

jd
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
starcrafttom



Joined: 07 Nov 2003
Posts: 7878
City/Region: marysville
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1984
C-Dory Model: 27 Cruiser
Vessel Name: to be decided later
Photos: Susan E
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As long as you have the boat tore apart this much you might want to think about moving the full tanks. I have always thought that the area the full tanks are in could be better used as storage. Also that getting some of the weight off the stern would be a good idea. The Marinaut boats had aluminium tanks under the gunnels on either side. really cleared up a lot of room. i saw that you weld so if you have that skill you might want to make up some tanks. It would be a great up grade. I know that Dave thompason, who developed the Marinauts , did the same think to his 16/19 footer. Also Catch 22 did the same to his 22 angler. I have driven all three and fished out of catch 22 and think its a great up improvement.
_________________
Thomas J Elliott
http://tomsfishinggear.blogspot.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
starcrafttom



Joined: 07 Nov 2003
Posts: 7878
City/Region: marysville
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1984
C-Dory Model: 27 Cruiser
Vessel Name: to be decided later
Photos: Susan E
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_albumName=album765&id=DSCN1051&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php

From Catch 22
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
starcrafttom



Joined: 07 Nov 2003
Posts: 7878
City/Region: marysville
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1984
C-Dory Model: 27 Cruiser
Vessel Name: to be decided later
Photos: Susan E
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_albumName=album460&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php


Dave s C- voyager. 16 / 18
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
ssobol



Joined: 27 Oct 2012
Posts: 3362
City/Region: SW Michigan
State or Province: MI
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SoBELLE
Photos: SoBelle
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moving the fuel tanks forward or making saddle tanks would be a great idea. This would get more weight to the middle of the boat. However, it only works if you don't fill the space where the original tanks went with relatively heavy "stuff". If you move the tanks forward and then fill the original tank space with something heavy (I don't know, maybe batteries) you won't be helping the situation any (IMO). It only really works (as far as improving the boat trim) if you move the tanks forward and leave the original tank space empty.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20779
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great job, photos and commentary. The heavy duty rub rail looks to have been fastened thru the hull to deck joint, but then no material over the bolts. You have sort of a blank slate there after the old rail is removed. A heavier than “normal” rail, might be a good option.

I have used both AGM and Li Fe Po4 batteries up forward. The issue is the length of the cable for the starting battery. You might leave the start battery aft, and put house batteries forward.

Moving the fuel tank is a good idea—but perhaps only if you have to replace the tanks.

Bondo has no place on a boat; much of this is poor adhesion often to the old glass. I like to use epoxy in most of the repairs for far better bond strength.

My advice is to paint the boat, rather than the time and effort to re-do the gel coat. It will look better and be easier to maintain.

Several options for the bow rail—you may just want a “gate” across this—which can be removed for boarding over the bow. I have done this on several boats—you do not have replicate what was there originonally.

The transom top and corners are part of the hull to deck joint. You do need to check the core—but it should not come all of the way to the outer edges. Same with the top of the cabin—It is cored inside of the vertical cabin sides, but not outside. Where your crack is, appears to be right at the edge of the core.

I suspect that the foam was put in your boat before the V berth platform was tabbed in.

I would not be surprised if the floor damage was limited. The area in the gunnel will have to be rebuilt—ground back 12/1, reglassed—and after the core is filled in—should be better than hew.

You are taking the opportunity to make the boat better than original. (All.of the Starboard cabin doors warp. You can put a strong back on the inside—or live with it...

Thanks so much for your documentation. Waiting for next stage!

_________________
Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20779
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Double post
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Robert H. Wilkinson



Joined: 26 Jan 2011
Posts: 1231
City/Region: Port Ryerse
State or Province: ON
Vessel Name: Romakeme IV
Photos: Romakeme IV
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thataway wrote:
You might leave the start battery aft, and put house batteries forward.


I did this on my last boat. No heavy wiring required. Just one heavy enough to deal with charging amps while under way. I put an on/off battery switch on mine as well as a 1,2,all switch aft by the start battery. My invertor was also mounted in the cuddy so only required a short run of heavy wire from house battery.

Agree with Bob, painting with Awlgrip or Imron sounds like the best choice. Fountain boats come new with an Imron paint job and are well respected and admired.

Regards,

Rob

_________________
Talk to me and I will listen-- but if its not about boats or fishing all I will hear is bla,bla,bla,yada,yada,zzzzzzzz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
olsurfdog



Joined: 13 Nov 2009
Posts: 178
City/Region: Carmel Valley
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1989
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Summer
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul, what a great project, your willingness to undertake it and the work done so far make me think you were being modest about your "skills". Please keep this thread and the pictures going. It will be a great resource for the web site!
Agree with Dr Bob about the rub rail replacement. Something a little more skookum would be nice, useful and in keeping with the C-Dory style.
Second his thoughts on epoxy use and that bondo is a waste- it also absorbs water. I'd use two part paint as well. In about 1970 we were racing a Cal30 a lot. My misjudgment (or foolishness) led to a starting line crash with a hull / rail repair, this was my intro to epoxy and two part paint. We removed the topside Gelcoat and painted the hull yellow (we thought it an intimidating color??) with two part poly. My friends in the boat repair business almost all recommend this. 10 years latter when the boat was sold it still looked good and scrapes and dings were easy to repair. Also saved some weight! At the same time we removed blister repairs done with now soggy bondo with thickened epoxy. Lots of lessons learned!!
You have a lot of work ahead of you but as Dr. said you'll end up with a better than new boat.
Please, please keep us posted. We all will learn along with you. Also interesting to see how you solve problems- like using piece of sharpened pipe to tunnel for future cable run.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
pcg



Joined: 31 Aug 2018
Posts: 405
City/Region: Sherwood
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 1999
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Quest
Photos: pcg
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nimrod wrote:
you might also consider putting your batteries and batt mgt hardware under the aft dinette seat...
jd

thataway wrote:
...The issue is the length of the cable for the starting battery. You might leave the start battery aft, and put house batteries forward.

Great suggestions. Thank you!
I like having as much accessible storage in the dining area as possible so perhaps just the starting battery next to the water tank at rear dining area and the house batteries in the berth area.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pcg



Joined: 31 Aug 2018
Posts: 405
City/Region: Sherwood
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 1999
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Quest
Photos: pcg
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the suggestions to move the fuel tanks forward as saddle tanks. My immediate concern for aluminum tanks is corrosion. I know the tanks can be powder-coated, but my concern is that even with 5052 (marine grade) aluminum this is eventually going to happen. I need to think this through.

Last edited by pcg on Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The C-Brats Forum Index -> All C-Dorys, All The Time All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
     Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum



Page generation time: 0.1116s (PHP: 84% - SQL: 16%) - SQL queries: 33 - GZIP disabled - Debug on