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Guest charge pro 10amp charger question

 
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rock knocker



Joined: 29 Sep 2016
Posts: 24
City/Region: Georgetown
State or Province: CA
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 7:14 pm    Post subject: Guest charge pro 10amp charger question Reply with quote

Thank you everyone for answering all my ridiculous questions. I have a guest pro charge 10amp unit under the wallas heater area. My question is i cant find an outlet to plug into a 110 to charge my batteries. Am i missing something? Or is it just for shore power connection? Thanks again...in advance.
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 16278
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does your boat have a 110 V AC panel with circuit breakers under the dinette on the Port side? This is the usual factory location for the 110 system. There will also be a inlet into the boat often on the cabin side for a 30 amp power cord. There should be a outlet under the dinette, and under the galley counter outboard of the helm seat.

Some boats have been fitted with a specific input which might thru the aft cabin bulkhead and outlet under the galley. These were not factory installed.

If you don't find any of these features, they you will have to use an extension cord to plug the battery charger into. I suggest that you get a cord or outlet with a ground fault interrupter circuit. It is better to have a permanent outlet and properly fused and GFI protected circuit.

_________________
Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL
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journey on



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 3190
City/Region: Valley Centre
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: journey on
Photos: Journey On
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would help if we know what boat and year you're talking about. As an example, Journey On is a 2005 C-Dory 25. The Guest charger (I think, it's so long ago,) was in the same cabinet as the water heater and H2O pump. And hard wired in to the 110 Vac panel.

So, rock knocker, please let us know.

Boris
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ssobol



Joined: 27 Oct 2012
Posts: 1497
City/Region: Leesburg
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SoBELLE
Photos: SoBelle
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On my 22, the battery charger is wired into the AC electrical system. This is powered from the shore power inlet plug via the AC electrical panel. The locations of these items are not always consistent from boat to boat.

My charger is located in the cabinet below the sink and the AC panel is behind the helm seat (a very poor place IMO).

Your boat may have one or more 120 VAC outlets (again, the location may be poor). Unless you have an inverter, these also require shore power input to work.

You can get an adapter that allows you to plug a 120VAC extension cord to the shore power inlet if you want to provide AC power to your boat when it is not at a marina.
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rock knocker



Joined: 29 Sep 2016
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City/Region: Georgetown
State or Province: CA
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its a 2005 22 cruiser twin 40s. It is located under the wallas stove on the right side. I did not try to trace the wires anywhere. I will need to uncover the boat and try to trace them. I did notice the wires were not going towards the battery area. Thank you all for the help.
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rock knocker



Joined: 29 Sep 2016
Posts: 24
City/Region: Georgetown
State or Province: CA
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looked tonight. All wires from guest charger go to wiring panel under dash. There is a breaker panel that says battery charger, along with ac breaker etc under steering wheel.
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ssobol



Joined: 27 Oct 2012
Posts: 1497
City/Region: Leesburg
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SoBELLE
Photos: SoBelle
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rock knocker wrote:
Looked tonight. All wires from guest charger go to wiring panel under dash. There is a breaker panel that says battery charger, along with ac breaker etc under steering wheel.


So you need to have shore power plugged in, the AC breaker on, and the battery charger breaker on to charge the batteries using the charger.
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 16278
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rock knocker wrote:
Looked tonight. All wires from guest charger go to wiring panel under dash. There is a breaker panel that says battery charger, along with ac breaker etc under steering wheel.


That is an unusual configuration if the power leads to the batteries go to the common 12 volt bus bar behind the console, rather than to the batteries. There are a number of reasons that those leads should go to the batteries.

Can you take photos of the installation? The 110 V wiring needs to be carefully protected and enclosed in a circuit box. You don't want to accidentally short it to any of the 12 volt electrical components!~!

Double check--there should be a red and black (or yellow) going to each of your batteries from the battery charger. If they don't--then that needs to be changed.
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rock knocker



Joined: 29 Sep 2016
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City/Region: Georgetown
State or Province: CA
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can send pics through an email if anyone can post them for me. I would appreciate it.
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 16278
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are the photos:

Battery charger:




Wiring behind console:



I don't see anything specifically wrong with the mounting of the battery charger, except I like to run the boat wiring which has the white vinyl sheath on the outside. The red and black wires should go directly to the batteries. This Guest charger is a 5/5; that is 5 amps to each of two batteries. There is only the output for one battery.

As I go to the photos of the console--I begin to see issues. The photos sent to me were a high resolution, so I can see more there than when compressed to put on this site. The AC panel is a Blue Seas 8027--standard AC main breaker, so both the neutral and hot should be switched on and off...This panel is in the right lower corner of the photo.

Problem: The neutral is wired directly to the neutral bus bas, and is not switched on and off--it should go to the first breaker (white wires). Thus, it leaves the neutral on all of the time--and if the boat or power pedestal has the hot and neutral reversed--more common than you might think-- this leaves the neutral hot;

Problem:: The panel is probably after build installed. The cutout isn not smooth. But more importantly there is no cover over this whole panel. The hot (black) is exposed--and it would be easy for anyone to touch this and be shocked--or worse--if a metallic object were to fall across this--it could short and cause a fire.

There is a galvanic isolator--we hope properly wired.

I cannot trace the battery charger output from the photos, but on examination closely the same type and size of wire goes to the common positive bus bar (Red) and to the common negative bus bar (black), instead of one set of leads to each battery! At least it seems to be fused.

There must be at least one more outlet: There are 3 110 V wires groups (green, white and black) to the panel--one is the in--10 gauge, and two out 12 or 14 gauge. wire. One must go to the battery charger, and one must go to an outlet somewhere in the boat. You have to turn the panel breaker (hopefully labeled battery charger) on to have the charger work.

Solutions: Immediately get a cover for the back of the 110 V AC panel--to prevent anyone or thing from touching it.

Move the white # 10 wire from the common bus, to the input of the first circuit breaker on the 8027 panel.

Rewire the battery charger output properly: use at least #12 wire, (red and black or red and yellow) in a vinyl sheath, directly from the battery charger to each of the batteries. There may be a common negative for the batteries. Be sure that it is fused at both ends.

Remove the wires from the battery charger to the terminals under the console. Label all of the new wires, at origin and terminus. I like to use crimp fittings with adhesive shrink tubing. If you don't have a good ratchet crimper--buy one now.

Find where the 110 V shore power connector is (on side of cabin, or perhaps under the gunnel in the aft bulkhead)--it will be where that # 10 triplex wire terminates which goes from the 8027 panel. It looks to me viewing the battery charger photo, that this wire goes thru the aft bulkhead. There should be a rubber grommet where it passes thru the tabbing. If you don't have a shore power connector/cable--go with the "Smart plug" or equivalent. You should theoretically have a 10 gauge shore power cord.

I am happy to walk you thru each of the steps via e-mail or phone call if you need assistance.

When you find the inlet plug, send me another photo, and I'll post it for you.

Thanks!
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rock knocker



Joined: 29 Sep 2016
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City/Region: Georgetown
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you. Sent you an email.
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pcg



Joined: 31 Aug 2018
Posts: 25
City/Region: Sherwood
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 1999
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thataway wrote:
... The AC panel is a Blue Seas 8027--standard AC main breaker, so both the neutral and hot should be switched on and off...
I'm new to boat electrical systems so I have a lot to learn and am a bit hesitant to post this, but the suggestion that neutral should be switched sends up a red flag for me. I don't understand why an AC circuit on a boat would not follow the same rules as one on land. It is my understanding that code requires that neutral never be switched, even at the panel.

thataway wrote:
Problem: The neutral is wired directly to the neutral bus, and is not switched on and off--it should go to the first breaker (white wires). Thus, it leaves the neutral on all of the time--and if the boat or power pedestal has the hot and neutral reversed--more common than you might think-- this leaves the neutral hot;
If neutral and hot wires are reversed somewhere, then that is a problem. Switching the neutral would help deal with this problem, but I think it's a code violation. I suggest you determine if neutral and hot are reversed, and if this is the case, fix it by correcting the wiring, not switching the neutral. This might seem like the more anal solution of the two, but it eliminates some safety concerns in odd situations and also could remove some liability for you.
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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City/Region: Pensacola
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C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pcg wrote:
I'm new to boat electrical systems so I have a lot to learn and am a bit hesitant to post this, but the suggestion that neutral should be switched sends up a red flag for me. I don't understand why an AC circuit on a boat would not follow the same rules as one on land. It is my understanding that code requires that neutral never be switched, even at the panel.

If neutral and hot wires are reversed somewhere, then that is a problem. Switching the neutral would help deal with this problem, but I think it's a code violation. I suggest you determine if neutral and hot are reversed, and if this is the case, fix it by correcting the wiring, not switching the neutral. This might seem like the more anal solution of the two, but it eliminates some safety concerns in odd situations and also could remove some liability for you.


ABYC Standards:

Quote:
11.5.5.6.1 Transfer of Power - The transfer of power to a circuit from one source to another shall be made by a means that opens all current-carrying conductors, including neutrals, before closing the alternate source circuit, to maintain isolation of power sources.
11.5.5.7 Power Source Disconnecting Means - A means for disconnecting all power sources from the load shall be provided at the same location.


The neutral is also disconnected in RV's. With their transfer switch.

The unfortunate reality is that many marinas and boats (not your boat) are miss-wired. I try and test the circuits before I plug in--but I am the exception. My RV had a system if neutral and hot were reversed, the power would not switch on. Both the power pedestal and boat switch should be off when you connect to shore power for two reasons: Polarity and arcing.. Many boat panels have a "reverses polarity" on the panel. After connection the pedestal power should be turned on, If there is a reverse polarity light--then the boater should contact the marina office. If the light is not on--then it is safe to throw the dual 30 amp breaker which is found on the C Dory panel.

Another issue is that many of us use the Honda inverter generators--which float the ground--and often will give a dim "reverse polarity" light.

Part of the problem (with many manifests, and dangers--including electrocution of swimmers in marinas) is the miss-wiring of other boats in the marina.

A few boats will have 3 way power transfer: shore, generator and inverter.

Here the exception to the rule in land based power wiring:

Quote:
When the neutral of a system is grounded, a 2-pole (single phase) and 3-pole (three phase) transfer switch is selected, and the neutral is a solid link with only the phase contacts carrying the load being switched. If it is determined, mainly for personnel and equipment safety, the neutral has to be switched, then the transfer switch selected would be 3-pole (single phase) and 4-pole (three phase), with the additional pole switching the neutral.


Answer--yes boats are different than houses.


Regards
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pcg



Joined: 31 Aug 2018
Posts: 25
City/Region: Sherwood
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 1999
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thataway wrote:

Answer--yes boats are different than houses.
Regards


Thank you!

I love the education I am getting here and am especially grateful for the folks who take the time to share their knowledge in detail.
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