So, then there is this....

[hardee]

John D, You are right about Cathy and crew at EQ. They are super.

And there is a C-BRAT site thread for that here: (Let's keep Score ....)
http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=18991&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=150

Hope Knotayacht is happy, dry and level when you go out to check.

Harvey
SleepyC

[thataway]

[Chester]

As I reread the blog the owners habits raised some red flags. He would not alter his schedule to adequately deal with the issues. Yes there were too many.
He didn't seem interested in repairing or maintaining the boat himself.
Mooring the boat stern to the prevailing wind and fetch was not smart. And did he make a habit out of leaving the access ports on the hull extension open? One could easily question his common sense what with not buying insurance.
I'm not holding the builder or dealer blameless, see my earlier post on that.

[Gene&Mary]

Having only heard one side to this sad tale........it doesn't seem unreasonable to expect a certain degree a quality control when purchasing anything costing over $300k and to except that same degree of customer care from the company doing the final delivery.

I thought the customer was very clear and detailed in his expectations given how far he had to travel to pick up the boat. I'm not sure how far Port Alberni is from the Yukon but it's a ways. He did ask many times whether the various items were compete and was always assured everything was compete......except maybe the BBQ.

Regarding the direction the boat was tied-up, without knowing whether wind direction is variable on that lake, it's unfair to assess blame on that.

It's also unfair to pass judgement on the likelihood or unlikelihood of the owner performing maintenance. The boat was brand new. There shouldn't be any required maintenance, yet. Again not knowing much about the Yukon, it seems like folks there would tend to be more self-sufficient that others.

Regarding the insurance, it would have simplified things enormously, for the owner, but given the scenario as presented, the lack of insurance is beside the point.

[starcrafttom]

I am just getting caught up on this post. Very quickly because I have to turn over the keys to house that cost less then this boat I have to say that any commits about insurance are beside the point. the boat did not sink due to lack of insurance . lack of insurance is a dick move but b=not responsible for the sinking of this boat and not remedy for the coming lawsuit. In fact a insurance company lawyer is the best reason for insurance.

Any commits about the buyers attitude is also invalided. The customer is always right. ALways. I may bitch about some of my crazier clients while on the dock with a Rum in my hand but they are always right. The amount of items that were not completed or checked out was outrageous. How does a boat leave the factory let alone the dealer with out the water drains hooked up in several places. the house I closed on today got a walk thru before closing and and inspection before purchase, cant imagine not doing the same to a brand new boat. Hell when I bought an brand new car last year I spent a hour or more checking everything including the oil because I do not trust auto mechanics at all, ever.

As far as what sunk the boat the two reports tell the story fairly well. And given the other poorly installed systems and lack of over site before the boat left the factory I would be inclined to believe it.

Now one last thing. You buy a boat and use it for a summer and it sinks in front of your house?? thats your problem to take care of recovery. I do not see why the owner was so concerned with what the builder or dealer was going to do. I get my truck stuck of road I dont call Honda, I call a tow truck. If its hondas fault i will take it up with them later.

Now as I own a 27 sea dory with added on off shore bracket with engine controls coming thur the hull just abot the water line ( ok a ft above the water line) and have backed down into 4 ft waves, mostly 2 ft, while fishing for lings and shrimping and have never had any water in the bracket or the storage compartment.. I will be doing some more looking and assessing sealing in this area. Hell I might even install a pump.

[san juanderer]

Agree with Tom that the insurance topic, is really a non-topic. As an aside is stupid.
As an owner of a pod mounted outboard powered Seasport, my pod has NO pass through to the inside of the transom. My rigging cables go through the same fitting used in the Cutwater owners boat. But my fittings are 4' above the water line. Use good common sense.
The surveyors mention use of two 6" snap in deck plates, some posted a picture that showed screw-in plates with a black sealing o-ring clearly shown.
Fact is, the pod filled with water. Setting the aft end even lower. Water then clearly flowed through the (3) 2" rigging tube fittings into the interior boat hull. As Thataway mentioned, the location of the rigging tube fittings ( entering the pod ) may have had to do more with hiding the rigging tubes than using good common sense as to sea state conditions.
I think the builder is going to feel some pain, there is some poor planning regarding items and there position to the waterline.

[MikeR]

Coincidentally, did anyone else notice from one of the survey reports that the boat is currently stored in a yard next door to the C-Dory factory? I was in the neighborhood and did a drive-by last weekend to take a peek, just out of curiosity. Not much to see of course, on the trailer and behind a chain link fence, you'd never know it was submerged and upside down in the lake just a month earlier. I did wonder what its fate will eventually be - will it be sold and scrapped out? Returned to the factory? Auctioned off (and then perhaps re-sold to some unsuspecting buyer)? Also made me think about all the heavy rains we've been having, how the hatches and windows leaked anyway...so much for drying out!

[Rcbeach]

If this turns out to be a design or assembly issue, I hope Fluid Motion looks across their complete line of pod mounted outboard boats. There have been several threads on TugNuts discussing the R23 and R27 with water intrusion into the pod and bilge. From everything I have read Fluid Motion is very customer focused, however they do have quality issues in their assembly process, especially sealing components correctly. We love our RT25SC but we have had minor issues with water intrusion into the cabin due to improper sealing and other quality issues that have affected system performance which should have been caught during boat assembly.

[Gene Morris]

Margaret & I met these folks and noname in Petersberg this year. They came over to Reefmadness to see some of the improvements we did. The owner was a very nice man and had his young family aboard. They were having a great time and heading north to pull the boat and go back to work in his helicopter skiing business. He also has a travel agency in Sweden. They know and expect good customer service. I'm sorry to see what happened to the Cutwater and quality control should be stepped up at their plant.

[chimoii]

Clear response on this issue from Jeff Mesmer can be found on TugNuts.

[colbysmith]

[Gene&Mary]

Jeff's post is more of a progress report than a conclusion. More to come I'm sure.

[starcrafttom]

That is a nice letter but it does not answer the real questions. Words mean things and The words that I see state that " we now install a 24/7 fully automatic bilge pump inside the pod as an extra precaution." Does that mean that they did not at one time? Was this boat equipped that way at the time of sinking? . How can you say that you care about costumers and not call one back when he tells you his boat sank. Hey I want a 27 ranger so I am not hating on the cut water or Jeff, but his letter did not address any real concerns. It did not address how the boat showed up with so many defects and hoses not connected. It did not address the lack of response from the factory or the dealer, which is not to show up with a recovery grew as the owner thought they should ,but at some point they should have gone to see the boat at the site. I imagine that much of what is being said and communicated on both sides at this point is dictated by lawyers including The above linked response.

The courts are going to be the only ones to decide why this boat sank. If I owned a 302 I would be looking at my boat ans how it is rigged really close and maybe trying to simulate the conditions that lead to this sinking. How much water can the pumps handle, how much weight one the stern until the boat takes on water?

Another note. I see on the tug nuts and other sites that people are making excuses for the dealer. Stating that the at the beginning of the year dealers are over worked on new boat delivers and work is not getting done on time but they care about the customer. Maybe if you cared you would hire more people or limit your promises to fit your abilities. I deal with customers all day and I could increase my sells . But I do not want to turn over my clients to secretaries and voice messaging. So I just take on what I can and I do not take on to many clients at once. Do I lose potential business some times? Yes but the business I do have gets taken care of.

[san juanderer]

This event over on the " Hull Truth " is meeting with some very harsh words. The Brat community seem to be kinder people.
If as Jeff wrote. We filled the pod full of water and the waterline only changed by 1 1/2 " .
THEN HOW DID THIS BOAT SINK ?

Something is missing ? And on a lake with 1 to 2' chop. And the aluminum skiff was still tied to the dock unaffected.

1 + 1 is not adding up to 2.

And remember, the pod should only fill to the same waterline level as the exterior waterline level. Unless there is piping allowing a siphoning effect into the boat inner hull.

[South of Heaven]

The Cutwater boat owners blog was taken down.....