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Frodo
Joined: 15 Jan 2014 Posts: 14 City/Region: Normandy Park
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C Sprite
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:28 pm Post subject: Outboard options |
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After much deliberation, we have decided to look for a 25 cruuser. I'm seeing lots of options but looking for a preowned boat probably a little limited on which outboard. 115 Mercury, twin 90 Hondas, 130 Honda, or Yamaha. I'm partial toward Yamaha but not familiar with engines of this size. Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks |
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smckean (Tosca)
Joined: 18 Jan 2014 Posts: 975 City/Region: Guemes Island (Anacortes)
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Tosca
Photos: Tosca
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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Unless you are going to mostly day-trip and be lightly loaded, I would not have less than 150 horses on a CD25. 200 HP is even better. |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20810 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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Agree with smckean: I have owned one 25 with the Honda 130. It was underpowered--and a Merc 115 would be even more underpowered--unless you were just content with displacement/semi-displacement speeds.
The 2007 25 we currently own has the Honda 150, and it is adequate. Better would be the 200 hp. (2 90's might add a bit more weight than I would like--but at least check it out). If I was buying a new boat, or re-powering--since we run a heavy boat--outfitted with food and gear for a month at a time, I would opt for the higher HP,
Yamaha is certainly a good choice. But all of the motors are good and if you take care of them will give years and at least several thousand hours of service.
We also find the fiberglass interior to be a more preferable than the wood--but there is not much difference. _________________ Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL |
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tsturm
Joined: 01 Nov 2003 Posts: 1134 City/Region: Soldotna
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: JMR TOO
Photos: JMR-TOO
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:23 pm Post subject: Re: Outboard options |
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Frodo wrote: | After much deliberation, we have decided to look for a 25 cruuser. I'm seeing lots of options but looking for a preowned boat probably a little limited on which outboard. 115 Mercury, twin 90 Hondas, 130 Honda, or Yamaha. I'm partial toward Yamaha but not familiar with engines of this size. Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks |
After 3 trips with a honda 130 on my "03" 25 Cruiser I replaced it with a 175 Suzuki had there been a Yamaha 200 in a 2000mi radius that is what would be on it now. Having put 1800 trouble free hrs on the 175 Suzuki in the last 6 yrs the next one might just be a Suzi 200,
. |
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Foggy
Joined: 01 Aug 2013 Posts: 1521 City/Region: Traverse City; Northern Lake Michigan
State or Province: MI
C-Dory Year: 2014
C-Dory Model: 26 Venture
Vessel Name: Boatless in Boating Paradise
Photos: W B Nod
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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:49 am Post subject: |
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I had twin Honda 90's on my CD 26 Venture.
I could find no fault with this setup.
Now, I'd get the twin 100s not for top end
just would not work as hard. Probably no difference..
Baloney on too stern heavy.
Better fuel economy with a single 200hp,
some may argue, but visual and docking ease
give twins the prize.
Aye. _________________ "I don't want any cake" - said no one ever.
If someone tells you they don't eat cake, unfriend them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life. |
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hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 12632 City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:45 am Post subject: |
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I just had the opportunity to do a sea trial on a CD-25 with a Honda 200. That boat WAS NOT under powered, by any means. Twin 90's or 100's would be perfect. If you are going into Canada, the Yamaha should be first choice, Honda should be off the list (lots of info on that here and other places), but that would be a choice you would have to make.
Know what you want, have your $$$ ready, because the good ones will go fast. Also, should be willing to look around, (the state or country not just the county) as sometimes the deal needs to include some travel and transport.
Harvey
SleepyC _________________ Though in our sleep we are not conscious of our activity or surroundings, we should not, in our wakefulness, be unconscious of our sleep. |
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Frodo
Joined: 15 Jan 2014 Posts: 14 City/Region: Normandy Park
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C Sprite
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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:47 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the advice, I was thinking the twin setup might be best for us. Should make it more maneuverable in close quarters? |
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hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 12632 City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:55 am Post subject: |
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Frodo wrote: | Thanks for the advice, I was thinking the twin setup might be best for us. Should make it more maneuverable in close quarters? |
You are thinking right. Love my twins
Here's one to check out, just came up and Heinz has taken great care of his boat.
http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=26966&highlight=
Harvey
SleepyC |
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jkswor
Joined: 23 Jun 2011 Posts: 148 City/Region: tok
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Missy marie
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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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Evinrude E-TEC 90 weighs 320 lb
115 is 390 lbs
150 is 418 lbs |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20810 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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Frodo wrote: | Thanks for the advice, I was thinking the twin setup might be best for us. Should make it more maneuverable in close quarters? |
There area multiple arguments twins vs single and these have been covered many times in these forums. There is definitely a difference in the weight--for example the new Yahama F200 weight is 231# less than the two Honda 90's. Anyone who tells you there is no effect of 231# on the Transom of a C Dory 25, does not know what they are talking about. There is the argument of 2x maintenance for two large engines over one larger. Yes there is some improvement in close quarters handling--but not as much as twin inboards--and it depends on if the engines are counter rotating (as they should be). Any of the C Dory boats are maneuverable with an experienced skipper. I have never felt the need for twins as a criteria for close quarter use of the C Dory 25. Some prefer a large main and a smaller kicker for slow trolling speeds--and which can be used for the dinghy motor. We use a 3.5 hp Merc as our kicker and dinghy motor: Weight is 30#. Larger kicker motors--such as a high thrust 8 hp or 9.9 hp Yamaha would be under 90#. If you have twins and then a separate dinghy motor--that means 3 outboards to maintain.
A lot depends on how heavy your boat is. The limiting speed on C Dory's is about 30 mph--beyond that the ride becomes a bit unstable. (The Venture series, with more dead rise will do better in the higher speeds). Most cruising is in the 17 to 25 mph. Because we often carry food and gear for extended periods--our boats are heavier than many. But the 150 is adequate for our purposes. Also if you spend time at higher elevations--there is a loss of about 3-4% per 1000' elevation--this is more noticeable in an engine with carburetors, than fuel injected. But you will want a lower pitched prop for a lake at 3500' elevation--and even lower pitch for 7000' elevation. |
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Frodo
Joined: 15 Jan 2014 Posts: 14 City/Region: Normandy Park
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C Sprite
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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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I've been in contact with Heinz and really like his C25, seems like a great setup. Hopefully we can pull this all together. Never had twins before... |
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starcrafttom
Joined: 07 Nov 2003 Posts: 7881 City/Region: marysville
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1984
C-Dory Model: 27 Cruiser
Vessel Name: to be decided later
Photos: Susan E
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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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Old story chevy vs ford, single vs twin. but it s not single vs twin , its twin vs single and a kicker. I would always go with a single and kicker. A 90 or 100 is not going to plane your 25cd , ever. If it would we would all run 100 singles. You are not going to gain any hull speed with a 100 ( well not much) over a 15hp kicker. Hull speed is hull speed.
So a kicker has several advantages over a twin set up. 1) on a cdory a twin set up is so close together that if you have a prop strike its 90% of the time going to take both motors. Most prop strikes are logs and they are wider then the boat. Second is nets or crab pot rope. Same thing. If that close together you are most likley (51%) of the time going to get both wrapped. So a kicker that is out of the water is protected from a prop strike. Same if you hit a reef.
2) Fuel. yes I run my kicker on the same tanks but I also keep , on long trips, a two gallon tank and extra fuel hose for the kicker. So if on a long trip I pick up bad fuel some place I have a isolated source of fuel. Most larger motors are ran straight from the tank to the motor. I know my 225 honda does not have a easy way to disconnect the motor from the main tanks and hook up a spare hose. which I might have to look into changing. But I have a kicker and 2 gallons will run my 15 hp honda for hours.
As far as maneuvering... practice more because i do not thing that twins on a CD25 or 22, which are set close together, add much to the equation. Unlike a tomcat where the motors are 5 ft apart.
Thats just my 2 cents to counter the " i bought twins so you should " crowd. _________________ Thomas J Elliott
http://tomsfishinggear.blogspot.com/ |
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DayBreak
Joined: 16 Jul 2017 Posts: 847 City/Region: Monmouth, Or.
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 2018
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: DayBreak
Photos: DayBreak
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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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I am so thankful for the wisdom of Dr. Bob and Thomas (Thataway and Starcrafttom) and their wisdom on Single vs. Twin engine opinions. These are veteran boaters that have great knowledge and wisdom in boating that I greatly respect.
I recommend that you give great consideration to their opinions on this subject. Because of these individuals and others on C-Brats we chose to go with a Single and kicker engine.
We have no problem landing (docking) our boat with a single. To have a kicker out of the water, when not in use and to be used for an emergency, trolling for salmon or just plain cruising slowly in the San Juans for best fuel economy is a good thing. |
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Hunkydory
Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 2657 City/Region: Cokeville, Wyoming
State or Province: WY
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Hunkydory
Photos: Hunkydory-Jay-and-Jolee
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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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I bought twins & when they are worn out, I will likely purchase another set, . Twins work for me & they please my eyes more than a single & kicker on a CD 22 & 25, but I don’t think they are the best choice for all. Many, I’ve compared with get better mileage with their single & kicker set up, then our twins & the points about hitting logs or other obstacles with both motors down at speed or entangling them in ropes or nets perhaps valid. Though in 23,000 miles of boating with our CD 22, I’ve several times hit obstacles or entangled a rope in a prop, but never taken out one prop let alone both & with rope entanglements, several times one prop never both at once. Yes the kicker out of the water is protected, but when needed immediately not as fast to put in operation as a twin when operating on the other. I have many times, while running on just one of the twins, entangled it in ropes or kelp & was immediately able to switch to the other, in those places I would have been in deep doo doo in the time it would have taken to employ a kicker. Yes, hull speed is hull speed, but the torque & slightly more speed developed in a CD22 with a 40 or 50 hp or 90 to 100 in a CD25 twin will give much more boat control vs a kicker in rougher sea conditions. I most certainly in 2007 would not have made the run from Juneau to Skagway on a kicker, like I did on the 40 hp twin, when having motor problems & my job depended on my returning home on time. In places like the Yukon River if the main is lost & a wrong channel is entered, the kicker will never make way against the current, whereas I found with the boat moderately loaded, the single 40 hp with a on the low end pitch prop, 6 mph could be maintained against a 6 mph current. As far as maneuverability with a single or twins it takes practice with either to become proficient & even more with twins. I still dock most of the time using just the one motor & the other in neutral & ready to use as a back up, should the one I’m using have problems. In very tight places even without counter rotating props, I’ve found the maneuverability to be enhanced with the twins. In fact there are several times without the twins, I likely would have made unwanted contact with other boats or obstacles.
For those who spend the majority of there time at planing speed & fishing or don’t tend to get to far out on a limb a single & kicker is most likely the better choice, the twins work best for me & if money wasn’t an obstacle in choice of future motor replacement, twin Tohatsu 60’s would be my first choice. They weigh 239 pounds apiece, which makes them a total of only 56 lbs heavier than my present twin Honda’s & the total 80 hp Honda’s on Yellowstone Lake only put out 61 hp due to the elevation. I can cruise at a max of 19 mph there, so with these twin 60’s set up, one would always have a spare that could plane the boat if needed. With the right pitched props, I think the same could be done with twin 100’s on a CD25.
I should add on the old pitch adjustable plastic pro pulse props, I’ve taken out individual blades, but never on both props at once & I have dinged up aluminum props, but only have ruined one. That was in 2016 on the Yukon River while going to shore. When I hit reverse a chunk of wood jammed in between a aluminum prop blade & the zinc directional anode. The anode came loose spun around & into the prop taken off all the blades.
Jay _________________ Jay and Jolee 2000 22 CD cruiser Hunkydory
I will not waste my days in trying to prolong them------Jack London
https://share.delorme.com/JuliusByers |
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westward
Joined: 18 Feb 2005 Posts: 718 City/Region: Seattle
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1985
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
Vessel Name: TBD
Photos: Steady Eddy
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Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:12 am Post subject: |
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If looking for a used CD 25, I would think twin 90's would be a great choice, especially if they were fuel-injected. I currently have a single/kicker setup which runs fine but have had twins in the past and would much rather have twins for my use pattern. I think the chief reason is with twins, both motors are getting exercised equally whenever you use the boat. In my case my life has been too busy for frequent boat use, so the motors sit idle for sometimes months. Because I haven't fished much, the kicker sits idle even longer. With a new 2014 boat my main engine has only ~150 hours, and I'd bet the kicker has less than 20 total hours. I don't think that's good for the kicker motor, esp. one with a carb. If my primary use was fishing I'd probably lean more towards a single/kicker setup. |
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