Comparing VHF/GPS Radios (w/ current rebates)

[gulfcoast john]

Bob posted:
"If you are contemplating the transceiver (Garmin 600) then get the MMSI from the FCC--since you cannot use the Sea Tow/Boat US number in a transmitter, or out of the territorial US waters (although many do use them in Canada)... "

My experience buying a Garmin 600 from West Marine (mainly for the Gold rebate points) was that the attempted purchase automatically brought me to the West registration experts who sent me a simple online form to fill out including boat name, riegistration number, antenna position (ft from aft, ft from beam), my current MMSI from BoatUS, and a few other simple things. They made it clear this has to be right and can not be changed once programmed into the Garmin AIS 600 without sending it back to the factory (much like intital programming of a MMSI number into a VHF). My understanding is that the FCC does not allow the lay boater purchaser to program in this info, not that the purchaser must deal with the FCC directly in any way or program it herself. My experience is with a 2015 purchase, and of course, things may have changed, as they always do. If I'm wrong on this in the current climate, I hope Bob will chime in with the current rules.

We just returned from a month scouting out Ontarios's waterways by car, including 25 of the 45 Trent-Severn locks and the Georgian Bay Inside Passage. We were hand-shake distance from hundreds of multi-Looper boats and crews and got a uniform message on these issues:

They don't inspect or care about Porti-Potti's. Don't pollute the pristine waters, which are pure enough to drink.
Change your VHF from USA to CAN. Technically you can't transmit without a Radiophone license but they don't hold US boats to that. They all also transmitted their AIS signals without any harrassment.
If trailering in then planning to cruise, there is a form to post in the boat window. Many didn't and didn't know what I was talking about and got no harrassement from authorities. Perhaps multi-million dollar yachts were exempt, I wouldn't know.
Bring some Canadian cash from your local bank for farmer's markets and the Gyros stand which does not take credit cards right next to the Westin Harborfront Toronto etc. Otherwise they pretend their dollar @ .76% is equal to ours.

JMacloud:
I think having the target AIS rec-only boat show up in color on a big screen (which you have already paid for, after all) is worth the 0.25 Boat Unit. Whether having you show up on their screen for 1 Boat Unit is a different question. I think generally so, Bob thinks generally not, and it is something honest captains can dicker about over a Nashville micro brew or two.

Over many years, I have favored the top-line ICOM VHF for top quality and sound (I don't like to take my hearing aids over the water). The issue of the Garmin VHF200 or higher being easier to link up in you suite is very minor IMHO. Get the best ICOM without AIS and a Garmin AIS.
We too like the Std Horizen GPS, DSC one button Distress floating 870 and 871, we have 2 in the ditch bag and one one the boat.
Cheers! See some of you soon at the Alton Gathering and then on the Cumberland and Tenn rivers!
John

[thataway]

John,
You are correct that if you are only going to have an AIS transmitter in the US waters, then you can use the Alternate to the FCC MMSI. However, if you go to Canada, Mexico, the Bahamas, etc--then:

"If your boating takes you to international ports, you must obtain a Ship Station License and your MMSI number from the FCC. Go to FCC Ship Station Licensing for instructions."

I understand that you apparently poled some loopers on their AIS and MMSI numbers and felt that it was not necessary to have FCC numbers, which are entered into the international data base. If I were to venture into any of these foreign waters, I want my boat to be legal. It is a bad day when your vessel is seized by authorities for not following that international rules. I have seen this happen in several countries; not a pretty picture.

I would have an AIS transmitter, if I was voyaging internationally, if I was frequently boating in crowded harbors, and or was frequently in areas of low visibility, including a lot of night time boating. Under those conditions, I might consider a Class A AIS. Rather than a class B. However, with the conditions I encounter, the Class B works well--I want to know the name of the tug and tow around the bend or the course of an occasional commercial ship. Our night running is mostly on upper Perdido Bay, and I have never seen an AIS signal, let alone another boat at night!

[ssobol]

Bit off topic, but here goes: Is a MMSI number (I do have one) really required for a DSC VHF distress signal to work? To the best of my knowledge DSC radio distress sends your position (why you need a GPS connected to your VHF) AND your MMSI number. The MMSI number sent allows the responders to look up your information in a database to find out your name, address, boat name, boat type, contact info, etc. Some places say that the responders can try to contact you before they launch a rescue to ensure it is not a false alarm. Even if they don't get your MMSI, they will still get a distress signal and a lat/lon.

Other information seems to indicate that without a MMSI number the distress function is disabled somehow.

Also, it would seem that DSC is not really what the distress function is all about. DSC is supposedly analogous to a phone number that allows one DSC radio to call another directly (like a phone call). Maybe the distress function takes advantage of some of the DSC features and capability, but AFAIK DSC and distress are two different things.

[gstraub]

I believe most if not all DSC radios will require you to program the MMSI number before it will be able to transmit a DSC distress call. The GX2200 is certainly that way. The reason radios only allow the MMSI number to be programmed once (or twice on some early radios) is that the authorities did not want anyone making false distress calls, changing the MMSI and doing it again, and again, etc., or masking their vessel's identity for other nefarious reasons. If you hit that red button, they really want to know who you are, and in fact, if I'm in dire enough straits to push that red button, I really want them to know who I am too!

[Peter & Judy]

The DSC Distress call feature was the number one reason that I upgraded my VHF. My boat originally came out of Washington State. It had a US MMSI number programmed into it. The Red Distress button would still work, but the information it would give would indicate that it was a US boat and that the owner, who sold it many years ago, was from Washington. From Washington it went to the Yukon, where that buyer didn't bother to reprogram to a Canadian MMSI number. When I contacted RayMarine about reprogramming my MMSI Number they were hesitant and I needed to send the radio to the US. Considering the cost of doing this, return shipping and the possibility that they could not reprogram it, because it is a radio model that is no longer supported by RayMarine for servicing. I decided to spend the money on the upgrade instead.

If I ever have to send a DSC Distress call now, the Coast Guard will know, who I am, where I live, have emergency contact information and most importantly know what size and kind of boat to look for. I also have my handheld VHF radios programmed with individual DSC numbers. When I was obtaining the MMSI numbers for these, I noted on the form that my wife and I would use these primarily in our sea kayaks. So once again they would know to look for a kayak in a distress situation.

I don't know much about the registry procedure in the US, but I would obtain the highest level of government registration to allow me to boat anywhere. I believe that the US Coast Guard would have access to my Canadian MMSI information should I decide to boat in US waters. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

[gstraub]

When you get an MMSI number from the cognizant administration, the FCC in the US, it is registered in the ITU (International Telecommunications Union) database. Anyone can search the basic database that will give you the vessel name, callsign, country of registry, etc. I'm sure the restricted version available to administrations has more info. So, yes, the Coast Guard can get your Canadian info. If you get the MMSI number in the US from BoatUS or someone like that, the info is not registered with the ITU. That is why it is for domestic use only. I just checked as our sailboat has an FCC issued MMSI and our C-Dory does not have an FCC license and I got the MMSI for that vessel from BoatUS. Our sailboat shows up in the ITU database. Our C-Dory does not. You can search the database here:

https://www.itu.int/mmsapp/ShipStation/list

[thataway]

I was at a meeting where the Commander of CG Sector Mobile, AL, District 8, made the statement "that the DSC does not work without a MMSI number". I am not privy to any more information, than that. I have only heard a limited number of DSC "Maydays". Those that I heard all had the MMSI number.

Why not get the MMSI number? The CG already has a lot of information available abut you and your boat than you may imagine, since they have access to national databases.

[ssobol]

[gstraub]

No MMSI, no DSC distress function. Very clearly stated in the manual for my radio.

From USCG NAVCEN:

The MMSI number is the most important step in making sure your radio and GPS will work with the Rescue 21 program. Please note that your DSC radio will not work correctly without an MMSI number.

[hardee]

[thataway]

Agree with Harvey, that when we have trailered into Canada, the passport works instead of the clearance number. I had specifically asked that question when we drove in. When we came into Canada at Prince Rupert, and cleared with customs, we did not get a boater clearance number to put in the window--as we always did when clearing in in Southern BC.

[colbysmith]

[BTDT]

FWIW:

Icom M506 VHF DSC Fixed Mount Radio
Icom M506 VHF DSC Fixed ...
$329.95
The GPS Store
Free shipping

[Marco Flamingo]

I ask for my passport to be stamped when I enter in Victoria and Blaine, with the explanation, and they always stamp. No idea why it would be refused. Too much bother to find the stamp? It's always right on the desk when I ask.

Does the distress signal work without an MMSI? That could be a matter of interpretation. Does your car work without brakes? Some would say no. Having no MMSI number entered on your radio could be similar to calling 911 and just yelling HELP into your cell phone. You could be located, but it would be better with more information. The DSC system was designed to provide more information, without that, it arguably doesn't work.

Designing a system that needs to be sent back to the manufacturer for modification seems strange. While doing research and deciding to upgrade to a DSC radio, I came across a discussion on another forum about this issue. Someone claiming to have worked for one of the big marine electronics firms said that it wasn't actually true. People have the idea that the manufacturer takes the radio appart and, using a screwdriver and a hammer, re-arranges diodes and transistors to effectuate the change. In reality, erasing the MMSI is done by holding down certain buttons or sequences of buttons. He gave the sequence for the one that he knew. I have no idea if it was true, but it makes sense.

The justification could be that the CG didn't want people to make prank distress calls and then change the MMSI. It might reduce theft (although most thieves probably wouldn't know that the radio has an identifier in it). Or it could be that the manufacturers wanted you to upgrade instead of paying $50 for the button pushing.

Mark

[hardee]