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crazy4salmon



Joined: 29 Mar 2009
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City/Region: Bellingham
State or Province: WA
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wish our whales would start feeding on seals. Way too many out there and that would help the salmon population. My brother counted over 100 seals in front of his place feeding on the herring that were spawning in the tide flats.

Sure, I will go there. We need to get our natives to stop netting the rivers. When the fish are in the Nooksack, there is no way for them to make it past Ferndale. It is like a zipper of nets for the first 5 miles. Not to mention many more up stream to catch the lucky ones that actually got past.

We need to ALL be part of the solution. My license fees go to help our hatchery's and fish enhancement. Every year our opportunity shrinks and I am very close to not fishing in Washington state anymore. I am pretty sure, that is what the state wants. I sure hope the 80 dollars I spend on my license covers the 10 fish I catch a year.

Get the nets out, eat some seals and in 4 years there will be salmon everywhere for all the mammals.
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localboy



Joined: 30 Sep 2006
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City/Region: Lake Stevens via Honolulu
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crazy4salmon wrote:
Wish our whales would start feeding on seals. Way too many out there and that would help the salmon population. My brother counted over 100 seals in front of his place feeding on the herring that were spawning in the tide flats.


The pinniped population if out of control...nature is imbalanced. Every expert I've ever read or listened to says they need to be culled. It will never happen. Boaters & fishermen will continue to be vilified. Expect more regs, less freedom and more taxes. It's "how they roll" in the PNW. Rolling Eyes

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localboy



Joined: 30 Sep 2006
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City/Region: Lake Stevens via Honolulu
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://mynorthwest.com/1402191/new-baby-orca-spotted-j-pod/
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localboy



Joined: 30 Sep 2006
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City/Region: Lake Stevens via Honolulu
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm no attorney, but I'm confident a municipal/county government has zero control over, what is in essence, a sea. I'm never shocked at what people in the PNW are capable of...all in the name of "I don't like your liberties, so I'm gonna take it from you".

https://mynorthwest.com/1445465/san-juan-county-whale-watching-initiative/?show=comments#comments
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JamesTXSD



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

localboy wrote:
I'm no attorney, but I'm confident a municipal/county government has zero control over, what is in essence, a sea. I'm never shocked at what people in the PNW are capable of...all in the name of "I don't like your liberties, so I'm gonna take it from you".

https://mynorthwest.com/1445465/san-juan-county-whale-watching-initiative/?show=comments#comments


if this were to pass, it would effectively eliminate the whale watch industry in San Juan County, keeping the boats 650 yards (approx 1/3 of a mile away) will drive away the tourists who come to see whales. That is thousands of visitors and a huge chunk of the economy of the area... people come to see the whales - those people stay in hotels and eat in restaurants; rent mopeds, bicycles, and cars; buy groceries; shop in all the shops and galleries. Jobs will whither.

There is a small, but well-funded (and connected), group that would like to see all boats go away from the west side of San Juan Island. That is where this push is coming from.

The whales and boats have co-existed for decades. You don't have to be a scientist to understand that the issue with the Southern Resident Killer Whales is the decimation of their food source (salmon). You are not going to "re-train them" to eat marine mammals, their salmon diet is in their DNA.

People are looking for a "bad guy" in this, (and the whale watch boats are certainly NOT the bad guys)... it is easier to see the whale watch boats and jump to that ridiculous conclusion because you can't "see" how the salmon population has been decimated.

I haven't driven a whale watch boat for two years now, so I don't have a dog in this fight. I love the Pacific Northwest, the character of the San Juan Islands and their residents (the people who live there), and all the spectacular wildlife there.

The SRKW whales have not been in the area for almost 2 months, staying out in the Pacific looking for food. I read that they have been spotted off the BC coast, so I hope that means they will come back into the Salish Sea... of course, that depends on their food source. In the meantime, I understand that the whale watch operators have seen more transient Killer Whales (the mammal eaters) than in the past.

My experience has been: people come to the San Juans hoping to see Orcas, believing that the SRKW "hang out" in the area. No doubt that word "Resident" in their name leads people to think that is where the Orcas "live." But, those same people are delighted to see transient KWs, although they are generally a bit less surface active than the Residents. The transient Orcas are doing fine - their food source (marine mammals: seals, sea lions, harbor porpoise, Minke whales) is plentiful.

More than you wanted to know? If you like to boat, sight-see, fish, cruise in the San Juans, the potential threat to your boating enjoyment there is real. When working there, it was an every-day occurrence to see boats (almost always recreational boats) get too close to the whales; rarely was that a commercial operator. NOAA and WDFW are funded and the potential for an accidental "close encounter" with this proposed distance change is much greater.

It's the food. (sigh)
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localboy



Joined: 30 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
That is thousands of visitors and a huge chunk of the economy of the area... people come to see the whales - those people stay in hotels and eat in restaurants; rent mopeds, bicycles, and cars; buy groceries; shop in all the shops and galleries. Jobs will whither.


Amen. But again...it is western WA...
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dotnmarty



Joined: 03 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

localboy wrote:
http://mynorthwest.com/1348879/washington-state-orca-bills-2019/

New rules in Puget Sound. Governor InsLIE will sign them...


The governor's name is Inslee. I don't appreciate the cheap shot.

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dotnmarty



Joined: 03 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

localboy wrote:
I'm never shocked at what people in the PNW are capable of...all in the name of "I don't like your liberties, so I'm gonna take it from you".

https://mynorthwest.com/1445465/san-juan-county-whale-watching-initiative/?show=comments#comments




Who are you quoting who said "I don't like your liberties,..."etc?
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localboy



Joined: 30 Sep 2006
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City/Region: Lake Stevens via Honolulu
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="dotnmarty"]
localboy wrote:
New rules in Puget Sound. Governor InsLIE will sign them...
The governor's name is Inslee. I don't appreciate the cheap shot.


Cheap? No. I think the word you are looking for is ACCURATE.
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rogerbum



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="localboy"]
dotnmarty wrote:
localboy wrote:
New rules in Puget Sound. Governor InsLIE will sign them...
The governor's name is Inslee. I don't appreciate the cheap shot.


Cheap? No. I think the word you are looking for is ACCURATE.


I think the word is unnecessary. Let's please try to leave our personal political opinions elsewhere. They don't belong on a boating web site and they do little but elicit trouble.

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localboy



Joined: 30 Sep 2006
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City/Region: Lake Stevens via Honolulu
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://mynorthwest.com/1453200/whale-watching-company-lawsuit-orcas/?show=comments#comments

Quote:
“They could let their passengers know that the southern residents are starving to death,” said North. “So, they’re going to leave those whales alone so they can hunt and forage in peace.”


Passengers? What passengers? If her “idea(ology)” passes, there won’t be any passengers. This is merely another ploy to reach their ultimate goal of no boats allowed around the San Juan Islands, period. The proverbial foot in the door technique so well established in this region.
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JamesTXSD



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

localboy wrote:
https://mynorthwest.com/1453200/whale-watching-company-lawsuit-orcas/?show=comments#comments

Quote:
“They could let their passengers know that the southern residents are starving to death,” said North. “So, they’re going to leave those whales alone so they can hunt and forage in peace.”


Passengers? What passengers? If her “idea(ology)” passes, there won’t be any passengers. This is merely another ploy to reach their ultimate goal of no boats allowed around the San Juan Islands, period. The proverbial foot in the door technique so well established in this region.


Reading the comments on that article makes it apparent that people who don't have a clue still feel the need to give their opinion. I find this situation potentially scary for anyone who operates a boat in San Juan County. Not just a commercial boat... any boat.

The commercial whale watch operators have a major stake in seeing the survival of the Southern Resident Killer Whales. These are the people who are out there everyday and understand the plight of the SRKW. A critically dwindling food source will lead to the extinction of these animals.

If you drive by a farm and see emaciated horses with their ribs showing, it is clear that they need food... the cars driving by are not the problem. Closing the road by the farm will make no difference - those animals need food.

The physiology of the Orca make it hard for the average person to see that they are undernourished. Add in the toxicity in the water (from plastics, PCBs, fertilizer run-off, etc), and it is a double whammy.

This situation, and a proposed "solution" that will do nothing, makes my heart hurt for these unique mammals.
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ssobol



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The new law seems to be all about the effect of boats on the whales (e.g. sound disturbance, stress from crowding).

Perhaps the problem is the effect of all the boats on the salmon. Whatever salmon that are left, hear a bunch of boats and go somewhere else.

Either way the boats are a problem, but maybe the effect is on the fish, not the whales.

Quote:
If you drive by a farm and see emaciated horses with their ribs showing, it is clear that they need food... the cars driving by are not the problem. Closing the road by the farm will make no difference - those animals need food.


If the cars driving by are preventing the horses from crossing the road to the field of hay on the other side, then cars ARE the problem and closing the road probably will help.

The problem here is figuring out what exactly is the cause of the whales' problem and finding a solution to that. It seems that right now people are just guessing.
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JamesTXSD



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The difference between the horse and Orca analogy is the Orca are not captive - there is nothing preventing them from going where they want. Now, if the horses could burrow under the road at will, and there is no food there, it might be a fair comparison.

The SRKW have been gone from the Salish Sea most of this season. The reason: the salmon run was 7% of normal (yes, down 93%) when we were last in the San Juans. I have no figure on what it might be this season, but I'm sure some of the PNW fishermen here could chime in on that.

The SRKW are well researched. The toxicity level of these animals is the reason there is such a high infant mortality rate (the mothers pass the toxicity on to their newborn). The males have a shorter lifespan because they have no way to dispel any of that toxicity. Those are facts, not guesses. Same with the greatly diminished food source.

There is research on boat noise, but nothing definitive either way. In Haro Strait, the water depths can run 800 to over 1,000'; deep water runs right up to the shoreline on most of the west side of San Juan Island - if the whales were feeling stressed by boats (the commercial operators are either not running or running at speeds less than 7 knots when within a half mile of the Orcas), it would be easy for them to dive and move away. Based on years of daily experience, that isn't happening. Boats are not impeding the whales' movement... it isn't like corralling a horse. Commercial operators are being watched by NOAA, WDFW, and all kinds of people from shore... if there is bad behavior on the water, there will be consequences. Nobody wants that.
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Missynme



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have the patience to listen to the 56 minute video it addresses many of the above issues but on science not opinion. I have no patience for 56 minutes but it captured my attention twice as we are so often played by propaganda like cats to lasers.

The Truth about Orcas, Seals and Chinook: A PSF Presentation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Zz8aEAg7dI
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