Cruising into the open ocean

[thataway]

[localboy]

IMO any boat venturing out into the north Pacific in search of tuna had better be A)safe and B)fast. My buddy is a huge tuna fisher"person" and his boat is a twin diesel Bertram, designed for handling big water at high speeds. It's not uncommon to have to travel 50-60-70 miles out just to find them...

[Chuckpacific]

Twins vs singles:

Although it’s been 6-7 years since I sold my CD-22. I did want to chime in on what has become one of the most debated topics on this forum.

In 2007 I posted this:

Last night as I was leaving my anchorage near Lemon Island in a heavy current I realized that one of my Honda 40s was not in gear. I motored back home on the other engine (glad to have two). Once there I raised both engines and saw that the shift rod on the problem engine was disconnected where it was briefly visible on the back of the engine. There is a long nut on the upper rod that enables it to be connected to the lower shifting rod or lever. The shifting rod has a regular size nut that probably helps lock the longer one. I refastened them but now I can’t get it into reverse. Anyone out there ever run into this kind of a problem and if so what fix-it-yourself advice can you give.

And received this reply from Sea Wolf Joe:



The long nut is probably an adjustment device that works like a turnbuckle, allowing for adjustment in the length of the throw of the rod, and yes, the smaller one a locking nut. 

Can you get the motor into reverse with the lever disconnected from the long nut and shifting by hand? If so, you probably just don't have the length of the throw adjusted right when the long nut is attached. 

Shift the motor into reverse manually, feeling when the lever centers itself as the reverse gear is fully engaged. There is probably a "detent" in the system that you can feel when it is centered in gear. Mark the position of the lever somehow to note this position. 

Shut the motor off and reconnect the shift lever/cable end and adjust it to take up slack with the helm control shifted to reverse. Check to see that the shifting of the helm lever into neutral and back into reverse leaves the lever in the marked position when in reverse. 

Start the motor and see if it shifts comfortably through the gears or needs further adjustment, etc. Tighten the locking nut when satisfied everything's OK. 

I don't have the same motor as you do, but this is how stuff like this usually works! 

Hope this helps! 



And I replied:


You have explained it perfectly. I should be able to make the necessary check and repair. It seems to me that the long nut adjustment is a critical one and in fact may even be only a partial turn because the thread length and the long nut length are not that great (maybe 5/8-3/4"). I was just glad that it wasn't a more serious problem. I'll keep you posted. 


So I was surprised to get this then from El and Bill:

Yes -- we had precisely the same problem -- and it happened shortly after a servicing of the Honda engines (by a Honda mechanic) who had failed to properly connect the shifting lever after the servicing. 

We were facing upriver tied to a dock (on a fast moving river), with dock on port side and rocky shore a few tens of feet on starboard -- tight spot. We had a couple with an infant baby aboard. With both engines running, left the dock with port engine ahead, starboard in reverse (to spin the boat in the tight spot) -- and the starboard engine failed to shift due to the same problem you had. Boat barely turned without hitting the rocky shore (by reversing the port engine after it was right angles to dock and shore). Now too close to shore, in fast moving current to get back to dock -- below us, a large barge was tied to shore. Finally clear of rocks, gunned the port engine(and only engine functioning) and (now under the high prow of the parked barge, with current thundering under the barge bow) barely cleared the bow and got into the river. It was a near tragedy (especially for the baby) if we had been plastered against the bow of the barge, and Halcyon had rolled under the barge due to fast current. 

Finally back to a nearby boat ramp, still shaking from the incident, Joe's suggested fix took care of the problem. 

I called the dealer, not angry, but to tell him the problem so he could doublecheck those nuts to assure it never happened to someone else. THAT part WAS unsatisfactory. He defended his "overworked" service man and essentially said "tough luck" and don't bother him with such trivia. Needless to say, we have had no further connection with that dealer. 

What did we learn? Don't trust engines to properly function in a tight spot (that was my fault), don't trust a mechanic to properly service an engine, and don't think that all Honda dealers are concerned about the quality of their service (even when a safety issue is at stake).

And my reply to El and Bill:


Coincidence....I recently had the engines maintained by a certified Honda dealer. Not being a mechanic I never thought to check that connection. I'm glad I was in open, unobstructed water because I don't think I would been as cool as you were. Glad you made it out OK. Thanks for the perspective. 




For the last 14 years I’ve watched the twins vs singles issue pop up every so often and am familiar with the different talking points. But for me the choice was clear when I had my problem. I know you singles guys will be able to poke holes in my situation but to me there is nothing like true redundancy.

Chuck

[thataway]

The above seems like a unique problem--but not so unique as one might think. I learned a long time ago to verify that the engine would shift into forward and reverse before leaving the dock--and before getting into a tight situation... If we were to all follow that advice, these issues (and many more) would be avoided.

In my own case, I was coming into a slip with a 35 ton 62 foot long boat where I had to make a 90* left hand turn in the boat's length, to get into my slip properly--some backing and filling. I came into the enclosed basin, and put the boat into reverse to start my turn---It stayed in forward! I was committed, and didn't know if I could make a turn in the end of the basin--the boat was in forward, and would not shift out into neutral or reverse. I prayed I put the wheel hard over at the wildest part of the basin--and we cleared the nearest boats by inches. After I got out into clear water, I found that both shifters had come loose from the transmission--same idea--a lock nut had worked loose. Lesson learned.

[Chuckpacific]

Reverse on both engines initially worked fine...that's how I got out of my slip. Forward worked too...that's how I got to Lemon Island. Somehow in the interim the coupling that hadn't been properly fastened or tightened came loose on one of the engines and rendered the shift mechanism inoperable.

[hardee]

[PaulNBriannaLynn]

[/quote] I would wonder if there is something wrong with the kicker or setup (such as prop) if you can only get 2 mph with 5 hp. As I noted many times I used a boat very comparable to the C Dory25 for many years with only a 5 hp, and we consistently made 5 knots. quote]

Your probably right Bob. It likely will go faster, I was only using it for trolling speed 2-3 mph, but it probably would gain another 1 or 2 mph if I really have it pinned. A kicker is better than nothing and will get you back, just may be after dark or not in the timeframe intended.

I have a friend with a 25' seasport who fishes regularly from Neah bay. They go out to blue dot and beyond in search of Tuna and Kings. One day while offshore there, the cooling system failed on his diesel inboard and a small fire started. They were able to get the fire out thank goodness. He ran his kicker for 8 hours before finally accepting a tow back to Neah Bay. Stuff happens and at least he had a kicker.

We ran over fishing line in our first 22, fouling one of the prop seals on the twin 40s. We spent the next few hours getting back in on the other 40. The way they're propped as twins, you don't gain much speed over a kicker when you run one of them at a time.

[Hunkydory]

As has been exhaustingly written, there are plenty of good points for going with with twins or a single & kicker. I have twin Honda 40’s on our CD22 & don’t take them 50 miles off shore for tuna chasing, but have spent some time in SE Alaska on the Gulf of Alaska side of Chichagof, Baranof & Yacobi Islands along with many trips up & down the Lynn Canal. I would unhesitatingly cruise the areas with a weather watch on either set up, but feel much more comfortable with the twins. Where it’s somewhat true one 40 hp properly pitched for twin running won’t give much more speed then a kicker, it does provide more. Even heavy loaded like we are on our SE Alaska cruises, for short periods it can make 8 to 9 mph & provide more torque for steering control in poorer sea conditions. On the Alaska cruises & heavily loaded, we run 10 pitch x 12” props & this pitch prop as demonstrated on the Yukon River in 2016 with a medium load in the boat would get us on plane on a single with a max speed of 12 mph at over the 5000 minimum rpm required.

In 2007, before retirement, we were making a SE Alaska cruise out of Skagway. On the last day of the cruise, while in Juneau, I developed engine problems with one of the twins. Not making it back to work on time was a poor option, so we made the 85 mile run up the Lynn Canal on a single. I wouldn’t even have considered doing that on a kicker.

Jay

[thataway]

One other issue not mentioned is bad fuel.. In that case, better to have a separate fuel source for the auxiliary engine. Of course the best course is to prevent fuel problems, by only using non ethanol gas, treating it with stabilizers, and addatives, and drain the system if bad fuel is found. Also getting “unknown” fuel, to look at a small sample in a jar before filling—and or pre filters before in the tank, such as a “Baja filter”.

[nordicstallion]

Do your vehicles have spare tires? Do you have health insurance,home owners insurance, do you get flu shots? In the open ocean...your on your own..Period!! And..it is scarey with no means of propulsion! No brainer! If you call, I’m not coming out to get you! Nuff said?

[Pacificcoast101]

I had a Crestliner with an inboard/outdrive and a kicker. I had a lot of problems with the inboard. Once, we were about twelve miles offshore when the motor died. I tried getting home with my kicker but it made no headway against three-foot seas. I eventually had to call Vessel Assist for a tow.

[ssobol]

[Pacificcoast101]

We have one of the cars that didn't come with a spare. I keep a set of plugs and a tire pump in the vehicle. Sometimes we're a long way from the nearest service.

[Hunkydory]

[hardee]