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Cruising into the open ocean
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BuildItOnce



Joined: 07 Aug 2018
Posts: 31
City/Region: Poulsbo
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Puzzle Piece
Photos: Puzzle Piece
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:30 pm    Post subject: Cruising into the open ocean Reply with quote

I've been on the hunt for a C-Dory for a while now and one thing I keep tossing back and forth is twin motors vs a main motor + kicker. I think the majority of my fishing will be done in Puget Sound... likely trolling for salmon. However, I would like to take it out to Seiku, Neah Bay, and Westport here and there for bottom fishing and likely tuna fishing.

Having twins seems like a much better idea for open ocean tuna fishing.. (or even bottom fishing 10-20 miles out), but a main motor + kicker seems like a better idea for trolling around Puget Sound to reduce the hours on the expensive main motor.

Does anyone go out into the open ocean with a single main engine + kicker? Is this too risky?
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 16279
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been going into the "open ocean" with single outboard boats for over 60 years. Some had kickers; others didn't. Never had an issue. I happen to be a single engine guy in outboard boats. Modern outboards are very reliable. Be sure that you get good clean fuel, keep your service up to date, flush the engine after every use in salt water, etc.

In many parts of the World you find single outboard boats over 100 miles offshore with no kicker.

I would still watch my weather off some of the PNW coast in any small boat--and that has little to do with engine choice. I have been carrying either EPIRB or Personal locator beacons for many years. The Personal Locator Beacon has the advantage in that it is registered to a person, and can be used in the kayak, hiking skiing, back packing etc... Be sure and have a good modern (after 2011) VHF radio with DSC and get an MMSI number, and put it into the radio so that the DSC works!

If going offshore, or many places in your intended area, Radar is desirable as is, at least, an ASI receiver. For example both Standard Horizon and Icom make VHF radios with AIS receiver, easily interfaced with the chart plotter. Better yet would be a transceiver.

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Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
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gary f



Joined: 16 Jul 2017
Posts: 81
City/Region: Monmouth, Or.
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 2018
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: DayBreak
Photos: DayBreak
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thought about this one alot while our boat was being built and we are glad we went with a main engine and kicker combination. We fish well off shore out of Newport Oregon and I know our kicker will get us home safely if we ever had problems with the main. We use our kicker out at sea as a stand alone (tiller off the transom) for fishing and it works great. We maneuver the boat from the cockpit and net our fish without running to the cabin. Mount the kicker on the port side so the tiller handle does not make contact the main engine. We also have an optional tie bar to connect the kicker to the main so we can also steer the kicker from the wheel inside the cabin.
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hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 9427
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh boy, you might have opened a can of worms here. Full disclosure: I am a died in the wool twins guy, but since you asked, can you do it, yes you can. And I had a buddy who ran a single 90 on his 22 with no reservations. His philosophy after being a lifelong general aviation pilot was this --- "Never had a kicker on my airplane, why should I need one on my boat." Had to do with how meticulous he was about his maintenance, always done on time, always done right. It worked for him.

Now let me tell you about twins. Yup, you can go out into open ocean. Is there an advantage to twins? Yes I think so. I could make a list. If I did it would look something like this:
1. They look cool.
2. No matter which one you are running, you have equal power.
3. They look cool.
4. You will have twice the slow speed manouvering ability.
5. They look cool.
6. You will have twice the slow speed manouvering ability.
7. They look cool.
8. You will have twice the slow speed manouvering ability.
9. They look cool.
10. You will have twice the slow speed manouvering ability.
OH and there is that redundancy factor. OH and there is that redundancy factor.

There will be nay sayers along the way, double cost of maintaining, double weight, don't look cool etc, but there is that handling thing, like bow thrusters on a 22. What can you say?

Harvey
SleepyC Moon

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gulfcoast john



Joined: 14 Dec 2012
Posts: 423
City/Region: PENSACOLA
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2010
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Cat O' Mine
Photos: CAT O' MINE
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In addition, and not to disagree with Harvey, is that they look cool.
That's worth 20k Boat Units alone, Eh?
(We're exploring Ontario, thence the Eh?)
John

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C-Dawg



Joined: 31 Aug 2007
Posts: 508
City/Region: Spanaway
State or Province: WA
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a single 90 with a 9.9 kicker, and I predominantly fish the open ocean for salmon, usually 15-20 miles off Westport.

I have a tie bar to steer the kicker from the helm, and use my Garmin autopilot a lot when trolling. The autopilot is handy for maintaining a straight course or a patterned course without having to be glued to the helm seat. A zig-zag pattern is really useful when searching for fish.

I also use a TROLLMaster to control the kicker throttle from the helm. The thought of sitting on the transom for hours on end to run the kicker while trolling is not my idea of a fun time, especially when it's cold and rainy, like when fishing blackmouth in the winter.

In the end, the single plus kicker is comparable in weight, but less money and less maintenance than twins.

Oh, and by the way, my boat's for sale. CoolSmile

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C-Dawg sold November 2018
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BuildItOnce



Joined: 07 Aug 2018
Posts: 31
City/Region: Poulsbo
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Puzzle Piece
Photos: Puzzle Piece
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

C-Dawg wrote:
I have a single 90 with a 9.9 kicker, and I predominantly fish the open ocean for salmon, usually 15-20 miles off Westport.

I have a tie bar to steer the kicker from the helm, and use my Garmin autopilot a lot when trolling. The autopilot is handy for maintaining a straight course or a patterned course without having to be glued to the helm seat. A zig-zag pattern is really useful when searching for fish.

I also use a TROLLMaster to control the kicker throttle from the helm. The thought of sitting on the transom for hours on end to run the kicker while trolling is not my idea of a fun time, especially when it's cold and rainy, like when fishing blackmouth in the winter.

In the end, the single plus kicker is comparable in weight, but less money and less maintenance than twins.

Oh, and by the way, my boat's for sale. CoolSmile


Itís reassuring to hear a number of people head out with a single main and kicker.

I seen your boat for sale when you posted it, but itís a little more than J want to spend (close to my range) and looking for something with fewer hours on the main motor.
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CaptMac



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 146
City/Region: Amelia Island
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 1994
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: River Horse
Photos: Blue Manatee
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:03 pm    Post subject: twins open ocean Reply with quote

I like having twin outboards for performance, planing, economy, stability, responsive handling, easier docking / turning and outstanding load capacity. If in the open ocean and something happened to one of the motors I like the option of getting back with 1/2 horsepower vs 1/10th horsepower (as with a kicker motor) especially in case of bad weather. However, Im partial to Honda outboards and feel that the likely-hood of a mechanical breakdown with one of these motors is slim to none at least in my experience.



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BuildItOnce



Joined: 07 Aug 2018
Posts: 31
City/Region: Poulsbo
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Puzzle Piece
Photos: Puzzle Piece
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:11 pm    Post subject: Re: twins open ocean Reply with quote

CaptMac wrote:
I like having twin outboards for performance, planing, economy, stability, responsive handling, easier docking / turning and outstanding load capacity. If in the open ocean and something happened to one of the motors I like the option of getting back with 1/2 horsepower vs 1/10th horsepower (as with a kicker motor) especially in case of bad weather. However, Im partial to Honda outboards and feel that the likely-hood of a mechanical breakdown with one of these motors is slim to none at least in my experience.




I'm curious to know how fast those twin 45s push you in reasonably calm conditions?
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CaptMac



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 146
City/Region: Amelia Island
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 1994
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: River Horse
Photos: Blue Manatee
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:43 pm    Post subject: speed in calm conditions Reply with quote

Normal cruising speed is 16 - 18 mph. I've had it up to 26 mph and there was still some throttle left. That was with the boat loaded with gear and the two, 26-gallon tanks almost full. However during the last year I''ve enjoyed the Cruiser for slow sightseeing rides around Amelia Island where I live, to Cumberland Island (Ga) which is just across the river to see the wildlife and feral horses running wild along the beach and for lunch at nearby St. Marys, Georgia. I'm 57 now and have learned that slower is better, at least for me. It's not so much about the destination as it is about the journey.

Since I only use her at the most a couple of times a month (she's for sale) I've removed all the gas from the main tanks and run non-ethanol marine gas from a couple of Honda portable tanks for our river cruises. I haven't checked the gas mileage closely but it seems like 5 to 6 mpg with the lighter load when cruising around.


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Foggy



Joined: 01 Aug 2013
Posts: 989
City/Region: Traverse City; Northern Lake Michigan
State or Province: MI
C-Dory Year: 2014
C-Dory Model: 26 Venture
Photos: W B Nod
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Open ocean has its challenges. Probably more important than your concerns with
the craft and motor for such an undertaking is your competence, honestly
reinforced by your inner voice.

Open ocean is doable with minimal craft. I know a man who sailed around the
world alone two separate times in a Catalina 30' sloop. This isn't for everyone.
But, this isn't what you want to do either. I mention it for a reason.

My point is know your capabilities as well as your limitations.

Aye.

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BuildItOnce



Joined: 07 Aug 2018
Posts: 31
City/Region: Poulsbo
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Puzzle Piece
Photos: Puzzle Piece
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:30 pm    Post subject: Re: speed in calm conditions Reply with quote

CaptMac wrote:
Normal cruising speed is 16 - 18 mph. I've had it up to 26 mph and there was still some throttle left. That was with the boat loaded with gear and the two, 26-gallon tanks almost full. However during the last year I''ve enjoyed the Cruiser for slow sightseeing rides around Amelia Island where I live, to Cumberland Island (Ga) which is just across the river to see the wildlife and feral horses running wild along the beach and for lunch at nearby St. Marys, Georgia. I'm 57 now and have learned that slower is better, at least for me. It's not so much about the destination as it is about the journey.

Since I only use her at the most a couple of times a month (she's for sale) I've removed all the gas from the main tanks and run non-ethanol marine gas from a couple of Honda portable tanks for our river cruises. I haven't checked the gas mileage closely but it seems like 5 to 6 mpg with the lighter load when cruising around.




It's too bad you're so far away. I would love to see your boat.
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BuildItOnce



Joined: 07 Aug 2018
Posts: 31
City/Region: Poulsbo
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Puzzle Piece
Photos: Puzzle Piece
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:47 pm    Post subject: Re: speed in calm conditions Reply with quote

CaptMac wrote:
Normal cruising speed is 16 - 18 mph. I've had it up to 26 mph and there was still some throttle left. That was with the boat loaded with gear and the two, 26-gallon tanks almost full. However during the last year I''ve enjoyed the Cruiser for slow sightseeing rides around Amelia Island where I live, to Cumberland Island (Ga) which is just across the river to see the wildlife and feral horses running wild along the beach and for lunch at nearby St. Marys, Georgia. I'm 57 now and have learned that slower is better, at least for me. It's not so much about the destination as it is about the journey.


What sort of fuel economy do you get with twin 45s at various cruising speeds?
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CaptMac



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 146
City/Region: Amelia Island
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 1994
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: River Horse
Photos: Blue Manatee
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:14 pm    Post subject: cruising speeds Reply with quote

I really wouldn't be able to give an accurate answer as i fill up the portable tanks without remembering how fast I was going and for how long etc. It just seems that upon refilling the mileage is around 5 - 6 mph for the gas used as compared to the gps distance covered.



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PaulNBriannaLynn



Joined: 26 Oct 2012
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City/Region: Savannah
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C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: TBD
Photos: Lorelei
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I may be in the minority here but I'm not fond of trolling with a kicker. You don't have the same directional control as you do with the main. These days the modern 4 stroke motors will run smooth all day at idle, so we tend to just troll with our 90. Our kicker, a 5 hp Honda is there just in case. Broken down 20 or more miles offshore its probably better than having nothing but I'd be trying to call for a tow to save us. You're not going to get anywhere at 2 mph, especially if there's current which there most likely will be.

We also had twins on our previous c-dory, and it trolled great with a single 40. Take it from someone that has run both configurations, they both have their advantages and disadvantages. I'd be shopping for the overall nicest boat I can afford, regardless of whether it has twins or a single.

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