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Divers thoughts on the Thai caves!?
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South of Heaven



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:09 am    Post subject: Divers thoughts on the Thai caves!? Reply with quote

The story of the Thai boys in the cave is so riveting! I can't even imagine trying to crawl/swim through some of those narrow passages. I'm not exactly claustrophobic but I dont know if mentally I could be in space where I can't turn around....Crazy.

Im not a diver. What do the C Brat divers think of the story??

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BillE



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jason I've been following this to the point that I wake up with nightmares about it. I AM claustrophobic and imagining trying to negotiate those tight passages, and swapping tanks, blind in the muddy water, is just beyond me. I do wonder if I could control the panic. And those divers have nerves of steel. Saman Gunan is a true hero and was an elite among men.
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spuncopper



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:44 am    Post subject: cave rescue Reply with quote

Hey,

This rescue is amazing. The amount of planning, equipment, manhours, support staff needed can't really be expressed here unless someone wants to write a book.

I would suggest not listening to Bill Neely's reports on NBC. He keeps talking about transporting bottles of oxygen into the cave for the dive. I just listened to his noon report and once again he's talking about oxygen. I couldn't hear the rest of the report due to my yelling at the TV!

They are using SCUBA bottles with compressed air. NOT OXYGEN! Oxygen, under pressure is toxic. It will kill you! Oxygen in diving is only used by highly trained divers. It is only used in specific operations following extremely ridged procedures, very specific and controlled decompression tables and in diving accident treatment tables. If they were using oxygen to bring those boys out they would be delivering corpses. Very poor reporting on Bill Neely's part as there are information officers there that can give him the facts, not drama.

Enough of a rant. The overall operation is amazing and I have the utmost respect for not only the divers, but let's not forget the support staff. Someone had to refill those SCUBA tanks with air, someone has to preform maintenance on the dive gear, supply batteries for the lights, provide maintenance on the compressors, generators, etc. AND someone has to plan and provide food, medical treatments and the list goes on and on.
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localboy



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The amount of planning, equipment, manhours, support staff needed can't really be expressed here...


I would agree. Plus the added psychological aspect of it. To safely, calmly and professionally get non-divers to trust you enough to even attempt it. Of course they have no choice, but that doesn't mitigate the inherent risks involved. Someone could experience a full on panic attack and it would all go very badly, very quickly. Quite the impressive rescue.

I have cave-dived only once, in the Yucatan Peninsula outside Cancun back in the early 90's. A few of us in the dive business were taken by a highly trained cave diving tour company. It was thoroughly enjoyable and very different from all my diving in the ocean. The water clarity was amazing but the visibility could "cloud out" with just a few sloppy kicks (with fins). There were multiple caves extending out from the main cavern we dove in. All had signs in English & Spanish that basically said "DON'T GO PAST HERE OR YOU WILL DIE. NOTHING IN HERE IS WORTH IT". I headed the warnings and our guides kept a watchful eye on us all.

Quote:
He keeps talking about transporting bottles of oxygen into the cave for the dive...


The MSM knows as much about diving as they do about guns... Rolling Eyes No "AR" does not stand for "assault rifle". Assault is a verb, an action. It is not a noun. AR stands for "Armalilte Rifle" the original manufacturer of the AR-1, AR-5, AR-10 and the AR-15/M16.

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Pacificcoast101



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm amazed the divers, who are working 2-1 with the boys are able to control panic among the boys who can't swim, let alone dive. It is easy to panic, even if you have had some classroom and pool training. The girl in this video struggles to get off the bottom because she is flailing with her arms which do nothing with scuba gear on. At :40 she rips off her mask, spits out her regulator and bolts for the surface. She is fortunate not to have suffered an embolism.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnWKS5DzKRU

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starcrafttom



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
she rips off her mask, spits out her regulator and bolts for the surface.


I saw that this is why the boys are wearing full face mask with built in air lines. You can not take it off or spit out the mouth piece. Most definitely a very technical rescue. Add to those issues the health of the boys after a week of no food before being found. i hope that are able to get all the boys out.

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spuncopper



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:24 pm    Post subject: dive school training Reply with quote

Hey folks,

If you're interested here's a video from NDSTC (Naval Diving and Salvage Training Center) Panama City Beach, Fl of a US Navy SCUBA class

https://www.youtube.com/embed/p4oJoPaOkDg


There are additional videos that will pop up or if you stop the video they will pop up. You can see a US Navy Deep Sea Diver Second Class class in training.

Spucopper


Last edited by spuncopper on Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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localboy



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
She is fortunate not to have suffered an embolism.


People end up in a Hyperbaric chamber doing that and hope they survive.
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South of Heaven



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What a great final outcome!! I thought loss of life was imminent last week.
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johnr



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="localboy"]
Quote:
Assault is a verb, an action. It is not a noun. AR stands for "Armalilte Rifle" the original manufacturer of the AR-1, AR-5, AR-10 and the AR-15/M16.


Also, Henry Ford did not invent the automobile. Now, back to the rescue...incredible! When it was announced that they would have to dive all those boys out of that cave, I couldn't imagine that it would turn out so well. I've seen student divers panic in the most benign conditions (i.e., a warm, well-lit swimming pool), so I it's hard to believe that those boys kept their wits about them.
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Marco Flamingo



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Years ago, my uncle wanted to teach my aunt how to snorkel for an upcoming vacation. Took her to a pool with new equipment and she could not put her face in the water and breath in. Mask was fine, she liked looking around, but could not breath in. She would lift her face out of the water, take the snorkel out, breathe, put the snorkel back in and then put her face back in the water. The thought of breathing in with her face in the water terrified her. Telling somebody that their phobia is an irrational fear doesn't help. He then thought that maybe it was a husband/wife dynamic and a third person instructor would help. Nope.

Maybe if her life depended on it?

Mark
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localboy



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marco Flamingo wrote:
Mask was fine, she liked looking around, but could not breath in. She would lift her face out of the water, take the snorkel out, breathe, put the snorkel back in and then put her face back in the water. The thought of breathing in with her face in the water terrified her.


Here's why:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diving_reflex
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Wandering Sagebrush



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:49 pm    Post subject: Re: cave rescue Reply with quote

spuncopper wrote:
Hey,

This rescue is amazing. The amount of planning, equipment, manhours, support staff needed can't really be expressed here unless someone wants to write a book.

I would suggest not listening to Bill Neely's reports on NBC. He keeps talking about transporting bottles of oxygen into the cave for the dive. I just listened to his noon report and once again he's talking about oxygen. I couldn't hear the rest of the report due to my yelling at the TV!

They are using SCUBA bottles with compressed air. NOT OXYGEN! Oxygen, under pressure is toxic. It will kill you! Oxygen in diving is only used by highly trained divers. It is only used in specific operations following extremely ridged procedures, very specific and controlled decompression tables and in diving accident treatment tables. If they were using oxygen to bring those boys out they would be delivering corpses. Very poor reporting on Bill Neely's part as there are information officers there that can give him the facts, not drama.

Enough of a rant. The overall operation is amazing and I have the utmost respect for not only the divers, but let's not forget the support staff. Someone had to refill those SCUBA tanks with air, someone has to preform maintenance on the dive gear, supply batteries for the lights, provide maintenance on the compressors, generators, etc. AND someone has to plan and provide food, medical treatments and the list goes on and on.


I am not sure the O2 was for divers, but yes one atmosphere of O2 can kill you. I thought the Oxygen was for replenishing levels in the cave, not for divers. At one point O2 was down to 15% where the team was. Normal air is 20% O2 and 80% Nitrogen. It could also have been used when the kids were walking with heads out of the water.

The only 'cave' experience I have had was poking into an opening in a coral head and going in for lobster. It was only about 10' back, but I didn't like being closed in and not able to see the surface.

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Sheepshead



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thought of that dive is horrifying!
I cannot imagine the guts that took.... especially for the first one to reach the group. That's pushing boundaries with no idea what lies ahead.

Hurrah for a miraculous recovery!!
RIP to the one fallen hero.
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Sheepshead



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thought of that dive is horrifying!
I cannot imagine the guts that took.... especially for the first one to reach the group. That's pushing boundaries with no idea what lies ahead.

Hurrah for a miraculous recovery!!
RIP to the one fallen hero.
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