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DW



Joined: 07 Sep 2017
Posts: 12
City/Region: Mount Vernon
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Wicked Pissah
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:55 pm    Post subject: Computer Navigation Reply with quote

Need to mount a Laptop in the V Berth entryway that will be visible from the helm seat. Having it at this location accomplishes two things; no glare from the sun issue and leaves the entire window area visible. At the same time, it could create a problem getting into and out of the v berth. In the past, I've used a RAM Mount. However, they seem to have gotten really expensive. Has anyone found an alternative; either manufacturer or idea for accomplishing this idea? 2004 C-22.[/img]
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ssobol



Joined: 27 Oct 2012
Posts: 1302
City/Region: Leesburg
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SoBELLE
Photos: SoBelle
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why a laptop? Might a tablet be smaller and easier to mount?
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jkidd



Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 1112
City/Region: Northern, Utah
State or Province: UT
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Voyager
Photos: Voyager (JK)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can build your own with some aluminum angle and flat bar. But if you take into account your time the ram mount got cheaper.
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DW



Joined: 07 Sep 2017
Posts: 12
City/Region: Mount Vernon
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Wicked Pissah
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ssobol wrote:
Why a laptop? Might a tablet be smaller and easier to mount?
I went back and forth with the laptop idea. It came down to the size of the monitor benefits my poor eyesight and having the power of the laptop is beneficial in other ways too. I'll be carrying the laptop between boats too. I have Coastal Explorer loaded on the laptop.
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DW



Joined: 07 Sep 2017
Posts: 12
City/Region: Mount Vernon
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Wicked Pissah
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jkidd wrote:
You can build your own with some aluminum angle and flat bar. But if you take into account your time the ram mount got cheaper.
You may be right. I thought it would be worth seeing if anyone had come up with a better solution. I haven't found a competitor to RAM Mounts yet.
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 15844
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand the desire to use a computer for navigation.. I have done it, but the major issues have been the brightness, and the easier use of chart plotter controls. Pat Anderson wrote about some of his thoughts about the computer vs the chart plotter in his blog about doing the Great Loop.
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Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
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DW



Joined: 07 Sep 2017
Posts: 12
City/Region: Mount Vernon
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Wicked Pissah
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thataway wrote:
I understand the desire to use a computer for navigation.. I have done it, but the major issues have been the brightness, and the easier use of chart plotter controls. Pat Anderson wrote about some of his thoughts about the computer vs the chart plotter in his blog about doing the Great Loop.
About ten years ago I did the inside passage to Alaska using Nobletec on a laptop with my 24 foot SeaSport. By far, it has been the high point for my limited boating. Being able to sit in my living room and chart out my every move from Bellingham WA, to Glacier Bay, Alaska was one of the smarter things I've done. Now, with Coastal Explorer at half the cost and three quarters the capabilities, I'm all in on the laptop. The only real concern has been the cost to the house battery when inverting. A careful eye can maintain both the computer and house batteries while underway. My current C-22 only has one battery, so no movies at anchor until I can add another battery. I did buy a Low Voltage Disconnect to install soon. That should assist in at least monitoring how my one and ONLY battery is doing when not running.
I'll check out Pat's blog.
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journey on



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 3139
City/Region: Valley Centre
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: journey on
Photos: Journey On
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pat gives a good view of a non-savvy computer user. For those of us that have some experience with computers such as you, Bob, it may be worth it to see the benefits of navigation software on a full PC.

In addition to Coastal Explorer, which is a commercial product, there is OpenCpn. It is free open source software. I use it and find it's the same as other navigation programs, such as Fugawi or Coastal Explorer. It will use either vector or raster charts. Actually, it's better than Fugawi and I didn't spend the money for Coastal Explorer. For starters, US boaters can download the free NOAA charts for the 48 states. The Canadians will have to buy their charts, if they don't have them already.

Boris


Last edited by journey on on Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 15844
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DW wrote:
My current C-22 only has one battery, so no movies at anchor until I can add another battery. I did buy a Low Voltage Disconnect to install soon. That should assist in at least monitoring how my one and ONLY battery is doing when not running.


You really need to have a second battery for the C Dory 22--in fact I would not take one out overnight without a second battery, or at least a jump pack. I learned that lesson about 55 years ago. Two items which might be better than the low voltage disconnect: some monitoring system, such as Victron 700 or 702, and a voltage sensitive relay (Or ACR) when you install the second battery.

There are DC to DC converters which are more efficient than an inverter for laptop voltages. Even the new lithium ion jump start battery I recently acquired has an output for 19 to 21 volt laptops.

We don't know what engine you have on your 22--but the most common engine for the 2004 would be the Honda 90 hp--which only puts out about 17 amps 12V DC total, subtract the few amps to run the engine--not a lot of charging capacity! All the more reason to have the second battery and a monitor system.

On the other hand, I don't do routes for a 2400 mile voyage from my living room, with multiple twists and turns ahead of time--even though I do my home work--both before I leave and each night on the trip.

Take care
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DW



Joined: 07 Sep 2017
Posts: 12
City/Region: Mount Vernon
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Wicked Pissah
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thataway wrote:
DW wrote:
My current C-22 only has one battery, so no movies at anchor until I can add another battery. I did buy a Low Voltage Disconnect to install soon. That should assist in at least monitoring how my one and ONLY battery is doing when not running.


You really need to have a second battery for the C Dory 22--in fact I would not take one out overnight without a second battery, or at least a jump pack. I learned that lesson about 55 years ago. Two items which might be better than the low voltage disconnect: some monitoring system, such as Victron 700 or 702, and a voltage sensitive relay (Or ACR) when you install the second battery.

There are DC to DC converters which are more efficient than an inverter for laptop voltages. Even the new lithium ion jump start battery I recently acquired has an output for 19 to 21 volt laptops.

We don't know what engine you have on your 22--but the most common engine for the 2004 would be the Honda 90 hp--which only puts out about 17 amps 12V DC total, subtract the few amps to run the engine--not a lot of charging capacity! All the more reason to have the second battery and a monitor system.

On the other hand, I don't do routes for a 2400 mile voyage from my living room, with multiple twists and turns ahead of time--even though I do my home work--both before I leave and each night on the trip.

Take care


Thataway, you pretty much hit the nail on the head with my next two projects. (Electrical and Engine) The LVD is an interim solution. I think I'll be able to monitor the battery such that I can keep out of trouble for a summer. At the same time, I agree with you that at a minimum, two batteries are needed to be safe.

And to compound the issue, no, I do not have the 90HP. I have a 75 HP Honda. Tonight I hope to measure the amperage coming off that alternator to see exactly where I am. Right now my house load is very small, bare bones. The whole boat is set up to be on the minimalist side of things.

This is a new boat for me so my set up is just in the works. Two batteries, ACR, charger/inverter, shore power, new a/c and d/c panel are all on the list, along with some creature comforts.

As for the living room routing, that is in addition to all the normal planning. But I have to say that my experience is that i was about 99 percent right on my routing before I ever left Bellingham. I find that amazing but true. And that is with the fact of three days of gale force wind along the way where i had to duck into unplanned shelter.

This will be a summer of fun in nearby waters and learning the capabilities of my C-Dory. Right now I have about 20 hours on this boat.

BTW, I contacted Lanovo about a converter to tie into my 12vdc and they were unable to help. Do I need only to match the voltage of the laptop or is there more to it?
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 15844
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A quick tour of e-bay revealed several 12 V. power supplies for the Lenovo notebook: 0B47481 65W DC Car Slim Tip Travel Adapter is one.
I don't know what the required voltage and connector is for your specific laptop.

The low voltage cutout will not give you adequate protection. A 12 volt lead acid battery should not be discharged to less than 12.2 volts. (Sure an occasional deep discharge may not ruin the battery, but it will decrease its life and capacity). The Victron (cheaper are available from China) will monitor the voltage, state of charge, amps in and amps out. (There are more expensive options--or some cheaper options than the Victron.

The specs on the 2004 75 HP Honda give an amperage output of 16 watts--the amount used by the motor vs @ left for charging will vary with speed and conditions. But if you are pulling 5 amps for the laptop, it will not leave a lot for the battery charging--Also I am not sure about the charging profile on the 75--related to engine RPM--often one has to hit higher RPM to get the full output.

Not sure how you are going to measure the current output, but it can vary a lot, depending on SOC of the battery, temperature, RPM of engine etc. Also most Digital volt meters have a fused limit of 10 amps. There are other meters, either with a shunt (such as Victron or others) or a clamp on meter which will measure up to 400 amps (or more).

Good on the planning. To me plotting the course is the least of the homework. We often divert from the plan, as Colby found out with his travels this last month.
Great on a summer of fun on the C Dory--Jonathon Arthur made his first great loop navigating only with an iPad. His 22 was so minimal that looking at it, you thought that most likely it was on a day trip.

Here is a link to Pat and Patty Anderson's great loop blog. Toward the end he makes comments about the navigation.
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DW



Joined: 07 Sep 2017
Posts: 12
City/Region: Mount Vernon
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Wicked Pissah
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thataway wrote:
A quick tour of e-bay revealed several 12 V. power supplies for the Lenovo notebook: 0B47481 65W DC Car Slim Tip Travel Adapter is one.
I don't know what the required voltage and connector is for your specific laptop.

The low voltage cutout will not give you adequate protection. A 12 volt lead acid battery should not be discharged to less than 12.2 volts. (Sure an occasional deep discharge may not ruin the battery, but it will decrease its life and capacity). The Victron (cheaper are available from China) will monitor the voltage, state of charge, amps in and amps out. (There are more expensive options--or some cheaper options than the Victron.

The specs on the 2004 75 HP Honda give an amperage output of 16 watts--the amount used by the motor vs @ left for charging will vary with speed and conditions. But if you are pulling 5 amps for the laptop, it will not leave a lot for the battery charging--Also I am not sure about the charging profile on the 75--related to engine RPM--often one has to hit higher RPM to get the full output.

Not sure how you are going to measure the current output, but it can vary a lot, depending on SOC of the battery, temperature, RPM of engine etc. Also most Digital volt meters have a fused limit of 10 amps. There are other meters, either with a shunt (such as Victron or others) or a clamp on meter which will measure up to 400 amps (or more).

Good on the planning. To me plotting the course is the least of the homework. We often divert from the plan, as Colby found out with his travels this last month.
Great on a summer of fun on the C Dory--Jonathon Arthur made his first great loop navigating only with an iPad. His 22 was so minimal that looking at it, you thought that most likely it was on a day trip.

Here is a link to Pat and Patty Anderson's great loop blog. Toward the end he makes comments about the navigation.


Still a bit fuzzy on selecting the 12vdc adapter but I'll give that a try. Makes no sense going back and forth between ac and dc. If I can stay with dc life is good.

I was expecting to use my clamp on to read amperage returning to the battery at various RPMs, and I do expect it varies. But the intent is to see what is actually going on when the inverter is inverting and keep it to a minimum. We'll see if this is measurable with my meter.

Jonathon Arthur sounds like my hero!
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ssobol



Joined: 27 Oct 2012
Posts: 1302
City/Region: Leesburg
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SoBELLE
Photos: SoBelle
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DW wrote:


I was expecting to use my clamp on to read amperage returning to the battery at various RPMs, and I do expect it varies. But the intent is to see what is actually going on when the inverter is inverting and keep it to a minimum. We'll see if this is measurable with my meter.

Jonathon Arthur sounds like my hero!


The amount of current going into the battery will depend on it's charge state more than engine rpms. What the engine is capable of producing and how much of that is being used are two different things. A fully charged battery will have little current going into it even at max engine speed.
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Marco Flamingo



Joined: 09 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

journey on wrote:
In addition to Coastal Explorer, which is a commercial product, there is OpenCpn.


The Canadians will have to buy their charts, if they don't have them already.


I read the first sentence (and downloaded the program) before I read the last sentence. When I went to the Canadian site for downloading the charts that I wanted, they were included in a $175 package. I didn't go further to see if individual Canadian charts are available.

Is there any less expensive source for Canadian charts that would work with this program? I just want to plot a cruise on my home computer using something with more information than Google Maps.

Mark
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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City/Region: Pensacola
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C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Marco Flamingo"

Is there any less expensive source for Canadian charts that would work with this program? I just want to plot a cruise on my home computer using something with more information than Google Maps.

Mark[/quote]

The Canadian charts are distributed by a private entity, and thus are always charged for--vs the US, which the official NOAA charts are free.

A good way to do checking at home is by Navionics Here, which will be the West Coast of Canada. Not sure that this will give you the information you need, but I use it often for looking at areas.
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