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water under cockpit floor in CD22

 
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Mike_J



Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Posts: 373
City/Region: Victoria, BC
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 2011
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Natural C-lection
Photos: Natural C-lection
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:20 pm    Post subject: water under cockpit floor in CD22 Reply with quote

I have a 2011 CD22 and it seems that water has been leaking into the space under the cockpit floor from screw holes that were used to attach the sheets that cover the gas tanks.
Any suggestions on best way to fix?
I am wondering if I should make an access hatch to the cockpit floor so that it can be pumped out completely and dried. Has anyone done this?

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Mike and Monica Jackson, Victoria, BC
http://naturalc-lection.blogspot.ca/
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are going to want to put any access plate the point where water accumulates when the boat is on the trailer or sitting in the water (which ever is appropriate for your boat). In the water, it will be right in front of the cabin door. On the trailer, you should be able to get the bow up high enough to drain out the back.

Is there core in the deck where the screws are leaking? If so, you need to pull the screws, drill out--epoxy fill, and then redrill pilot holes, and use appropriate sealing compound. Same when you put in the inspection plate--cut out around the core--put the screws into epoxy, not the cored material.

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Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL
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Mike_J



Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Posts: 373
City/Region: Victoria, BC
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 2011
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Natural C-lection
Photos: Natural C-lection
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, I think the back will work for both trailer and in the water as the bow seems to be high in both cases.
Would this be a warranty issue?
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When the C Dory 22 is sitting in the water, the lowest point of the cockpit (and cabin) is just in front of the aft cabin bulkhead. That is the reason that the bilge pump is placed there on the non cockpit solid floor boats. Most of us also put a bilge pump aft, to use when the boat is on a plane.
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Mike_J



Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Posts: 373
City/Region: Victoria, BC
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 2011
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Natural C-lection
Photos: Natural C-lection
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get it now. That would be the lowest point of the hull under the cockpit floor. Thanks.
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ShellBack



Joined: 29 Aug 2011
Posts: 177
City/Region: Victoria
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Thalassa
Photos: Thalassa
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Mike. Silly question maybe but how do you know there is water under the floor. I have a access port where the Porta potti sits on my 22 and check it regularly. Just curious where the water showed. ?
Terry
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Mike_J



Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Posts: 373
City/Region: Victoria, BC
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 2011
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Natural C-lection
Photos: Natural C-lection
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I had the cockpit fill with water (another story), when I drained it, I saw water spurting out of the tiny hole in the cockpit floor by the stbd gas tank!
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShellBack wrote:
Hey Mike. Silly question maybe but how do you know there is water under the floor. I have a access port where the Porta potti sits on my 22 and check it regularly. Just curious where the water showed. ?
Terry


The 2011 boat will have a built in cockpit floor which is not removable. The 2007 boat may have a removable cockpit floor (I believe it was an option, and the build in floor came along after). I favor the removable floor, for just the reason that if water gets under the fixed floor, it is going to be hard to remove.
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ssobol



Joined: 27 Oct 2012
Posts: 3361
City/Region: SW Michigan
State or Province: MI
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SoBELLE
Photos: SoBelle
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the '06 boats had the removable floor. My '07 has the permanent flat floor. With the permanent floor you need to seal the gap between the floor and the aft cabin bulkhead to prevent water intrusion into the cabin.

On my boat, water in the cockpit drains aft except for nights when it rains hard and two people are in the berth. Then water will collect at the aft bulkhead. It can be cleared by standing on the swim step.
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Art in Fairfield Harbour



Joined: 02 Jul 2017
Posts: 14
City/Region: Fairfield Harbour
State or Province: NC
Photos: RED TOP
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:47 am    Post subject: Sump pumpout Reply with quote

At our slip, the cockpit in our 07 22' cruiser collect rain water, even with the bimini up. The bilge pump pumps down to about 1 inch.

To get rid of the rest I bought a hand bilge pump from Walmart and a flexible (rubber?) 1 1/2 inch elbow from Lowes. The elbow fits on the pump and lets you get down to less than 1/8 inch! When you think you are done pumping wait a bit and more water will drain from under the cockpit floor.

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Art Smith
on the Neuse River, NC
KB1TX
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RichardM



Joined: 28 Mar 2012
Posts: 96
City/Region: Akron
State or Province: OH
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Pangur Ban
Photos: Pangur Ban
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not clear where you found the water first. In any case water under the floor could be coming in lots of places, not where you first saw it. I had a similar discovery and was confused by it at first. Here's what I finally found and did.

On Pangur Ban all of the fittings on the front half of the (2006) boat were leaking into the cabin when I bought the boat. In any kind of rain there was seepage and active dripping around the bolts under the bow rail, cleats, and every other fitting, whether factory installed or added by the previous owner. (Sitting below in the cabin during a rainstorm made the problem clear, but testing with a garden hose would have been a better idea.) This water eventually found its way under the cabin floor and leaked out of any available low-placed hole, bow to stern, depending on the angle of the hull. One such leak was back near the gas tanks where the cockpit floor ends. But it turned out that wasn't the source of the problem.

I installed a 6 inch inspection port under the porta potti. That was a good place because it's the low point when the boat is on its trailer in my driveway tilted slightly downhill. It's also a place where there's about 3 inches of space between the cabin floor and the hull itself so water could accumulate and be removed.

Opening the space revealed soaked flotation foam and, when that was removed, many days of slow drainage. Removing the foam even created a little storage compartment, if needed for something small.

Bonus: the 6 inch port proved to be a perfect fit for a round "duct booster fan" from the big box store. The fan let me create negative (or positive) ventilation for as many days as needed to dry out the space.

Photos of the installation of the inspection port are on the Pangur Ban photo page.

Every bolt hole and fitting around the cabin had to be removed and re-bedded. Now it's all dry. I hope.
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We need to understand how our C Dory 22's are built. The basic hull is molded in one piece. The inner bottom is the floor in the cabin, at least thru 2007, and reviewing photos of boats constructed thru 2016, I believe much of this to still be the case today. (The venture series (for certain the 26) and Tom Cats, have an interior floor elevated off the bottom of the hull).

Some boats had the aft cabin bulkhead put in place--then the molding of the entire deck, including the gunnels, splash well entire cabin house, less top, installed. The hull to deck joint is glassed over both just below the gunnel, and across the transom, underneath the trim pieces. The aft bulkhead should be tabbed into the hull, both in the cabin and the cockpit area. In many boats there is a slot or hole cut between the inner hull bottom under the cockpit, and the cabin floor(inner hull bottom), so that a bilge pump can be put in place forward the aft cabin bulkhead, where the lowest place is when the boat is in the water. In the newer boat (sometime late 2006/2007 on) where a fixed molded floor is placed in the cockpit, and should be totally sealed off from the hull bottom (but is not, and this is the source of the water under the cockpit floor). The entire V berth, and molding under the portipotty location is another piece which is tabbed into the sides of the hull, and should be tabbed into the bottom of the hull all along the bottom of this V berth molding.

Tabbing is using continuous pieces of fiberglass mat 3" to 4" wide, set in resin to completely seal off the V Berth components from the cabin floor, and the aft bulkhead from the cabin floor. Thus water trapped under the V berth/portipotty area, should not get onto the cabin floor, nor should water trapped under the glassed in aft cockpit deck get into the cabin, if the aft bulkhead is properly tabbed in place. The problem lies, in that often the glass pieces to be joined are not clean--there can be wax, dust, and other contaminates, which keep the resin from bonding the glass mat to the bulkheads and molded areas. I have not looked carefully on how the totally molded interior is tabbed in--but the general principles apply. Unfortunately there is often incomplete bonding, or breakdown of the adherence between the bulkheads and the hull bottom, which allows water intrusion into the cabin floor. When we were building boats we tabbed in bulkheads with initially 2 layers of mat, and then a layer of 24 oz roving, mat, roving, mat, cloth. Production boats take shortcuts to build to a price point.

Also all penetrations thru a cored structure should be have the core sealed. This has never been done with C Dorys at the factory to my knowledge. I discussed this with one of the C Dory owners and investors at the Hontoon gathering, and in an followup e-mail. If there is water getting inside of the cabin--there is a failure in the boat building process. (Almost all production boats have this issue, lacking an owner who pulls the railings, penetrations etc off, and re-seals. ) When we re-built our Cal 46, I spent over 2 months pulling all railings and fittings, properly sealing and bedding, 25 years later that boat is still cruising full time, and not a drop leaks inside)

On the wooden interior C Dory 22's the tabbing on the inside of the cabin should be able to be checked, and repaired if leaking. It can also be checked on the removable floor/no floor cockpit boats on the outside of the aft bulkhead. It should be able to be addressed on the molded interior boats, but may be a little more difficult.

If I have missed any information on the newest boats, please correct me, and inform us what is different.
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Mike_J



Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Posts: 373
City/Region: Victoria, BC
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 2011
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Natural C-lection
Photos: Natural C-lection
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the detailed overview of the construction of CD22s. I am going to find out if this is a warranty issue, and if not I will likely make an access port for the cockpit floor and seal off the places were it has been drilled.
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Driftwood



Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 11

State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Bettie
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 9:10 pm    Post subject: 22 cruiser 2007 glassed in cockpit Reply with quote

I had water leaking into the cabin when the boat was bow down on the trailer from a hole between the cabin and the cockpit below the door.
Found out it was coming in at the cover holes same as the beginning of this thread.

I asked around to try to find out what the floor was made of and if there were any structural elements.
I wanted to dry it.
Was told it was a cored raised floor with nothing or possibly some blown foam between it the hull.

I then drilled two-4.5" dia. holes for deckplates at the top and bottom of the center cockpit floor
Sure enough I found the 1/2" balsa cored fiberglass sole.
Then found a dense foam ridge to support the floor that was fiberglassed to the sole and not the hull. I cut that out at the deckplates to access the hull. I still have 3 pillars for support.
Below te deckplate near the cabin there was water logged soft foam.
This foam extended about 18inches aft from the cabin bulkhead.
I got a spoon and dug out as much as I could. I got out about 50lbs worth.
I tapped around and the hull bottom seems fine.
I plan to dry it out with a hair dryer and put in the deck plates per Dr. Bobs over-core replacement method.

I plan to pull the fuel tanks and seal the rest of the raised stern area this winter.
I think the blown foam was the only bad part of the design. Everything else seemed well made and solid.
I cant see how the cabin bulkhead is attached to the hull if it is at all.
If the bottom core was not sealed there could be issues at some point.

At least now I can pull the deckplates and dry it out until I seal the leaks.


Thanks for everyone that replied to my information requests!
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Red Lantern



Joined: 16 May 2009
Posts: 2
City/Region: Anchorage
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Red Lantern
Photos: Red Lantern
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Mike J, I have a 2008 with cockpit molding and screw holes that penetrate the molding for the fuel tank cover plates as you describe. I also have a small drain hole, 1/4 inch diameter, at the low point in the molding where the bilge pump is at the rear. If you rub your finger along the molding in that area you will may find a hole, or use a mirror. I discussed this with the dealer several years ago. That small hole at the bilge is for alleviating any water accumulation between the molding and the hull. That hole needs to remain open so check and make sure it is not plugged.
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