Outfitting New Boat

Snider · Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:49 pm Post subject: Outfitting New Boat

I was posting over on a VHF thread and thought it may be a good idea to bring this to a post of its own. We just purchased a used 22 cruiser, still pinching myself. It's a very well taken care of boat that's spent its whole life that I know of on fresh water lakes. It's very sparsely outfitted, with just a basic VHF, no GPS etc.

I'd like to keep the boat as simple as possible. This is our first motor boat, we started out on a 19ft cruiser that we sailed sans engine for a few years inshore and offshore, then moved up to larger sailboats with mostly small outboards only used for docking, needless to say, without large engines and battery banks our electronics consisted of mostly paper charts and a handheld GPSmap76.

Just for ease of use I'm thinking of adding a small plotter and I need to upgrade the VHF. I was thinking of getting a GPS/AIS enabled VHF, and a plotter that has the capability of adding auto pilot in the future. Now that I have a running engine, electrical draw doesn't seem to be an issue anymore. We took the boat out for a test run last week and we did just fine with the equipment installed. I really hate drilling holes in any boat, so I'm also tempted to just keep it as is for now.

The one area I do want to upgrade is the anchoring system, it has a small anchor roller and bruce anchor, the shaft of the anchor sits on the fiberglass instead of the roller and you can see where that and the chain have rubbed the gelcoat. I have a left over Delta 22 from my last sailboat, I've been thinking of buying and installing a new roller, then putting the delta on the boat and getting a small fortress as a stern/back-up anchor. In my area a plow and danforth type anchor are all you really need.

Otherwise what gear do you have aboard that you really could not live without, tell me what I don't know, if you were in my position what would be your priority gear to add?

We'll mostly be using the boat with myself, my wife and our two small kids. Generally day, and into the night excursions with some overnights, hopefully a few longer spells aboard, cruising to some ports North and South of Charleston, say Georgetown, Beaufort and Savannah. Hopefully one day the keys, Ft Jefferson and maybe the Bahamas, and of course the Loop eventually, ha, isn't that everyones plan? So I'd appreciate your thoughts on safety and other gear.

Thanks, and hope to see you out on the water.

thataway · Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:08 pm Post subject:

Brandon,
We love the Standard Horizon with AIS built in. (GX 2200.) Icom also has one. I have my AIS to an older 5" Garmin chart plotter (which came with the boat)--It clutters up the screen with a small plotter, but does give you the info. This keeps my 10" and 7" plotters clear for radar, down scan, and chart plotting.

If you never want radar, then there are some good Garmin 8" and 9" combo units which have been on sale recently...Yes, a 4" or 5" will work. But for about the same price you can get one of the larger screens, but they will not take radar or NMEA 2000 in the future. They will take NMEA 0183.

If you don't want holes, put the chart plotter on with high strength velcro--that is the way I have my 7" plotter, and it is solid...

Snider · Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:16 pm Post subject: Thanks

Thanks Bob,

I was actually looking at some of the standard horizon radios, I really like them, and had one on our last sailboat. I cannot say that I want radar at the moment, but I would like to keep that door open for the future. I just don’t see where my limited use would justify the cost of the radar at the moment. Thank you for the Velcro idea, I was thinking about something similar, maybe double-sided tape, but that Velcro seems like a good solution. I appreciate the comments, I think I’ll go with the Horizon, does it also transmit my AIS to other vessels?

Mind if I ask what you generally use your radar for?

thataway · Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:20 pm Post subject:

The Standard Horizon does not transmit the AIS data. You would have to go to one of the Class B transmitters. My personal favorite is the Vesper Marine Watch Mate 850. That has a monochrome screen for both a "radar" type of position and data, plus a separate class B transceiver. These can be bought for about $830. There are some others which are cheaper without a display. Colby has one of these, and it transmits well...all too well! (at times)

Snider · Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:36 pm Post subject: Ok

Thanks for the info. Mind me asking how you generally utilize your radar? I don’t really know what I don’t know when it comes to them. Once or twice I’ve been caught out in heavy fog in a busy shopping channel and wished I’d had it, especially when all I could hear were fog horns from tugs. Otherwise just not sure if it’s worth the expense.

gulfcoast john · Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:06 pm Post subject:

Hi Brandon!
Congrads on your fine boat, you're going to love it.
Until you start to use it more, it can be hard to figure out how to best outfit it. Boat electronics are like computers (the guts actually are computers). Compared to sailing, you may never need an autopilot on a 22. Trying to buy a plotter that can handle future autopilots, radar, AIS, CHIRP sonar, networking etc that's current in 2018 could be a $4,500 unit. I think Brent just found the best deal, an updated touchscreen 12 inch Garmin 8012 MFD for $1500 at BOE Marine

https://www.boemarine.com/products/copy-of-garmin-gpsmap-8012-mfd-12-color-w-usa-bluecharts?variant=6964511014978

I bought a second one, and it's absolutely awesome. Right for you? Doubt it, but if it's in the budget worth considering as it won't be outdated for a long, long time.
We were stationed at CAFB and are very familiar with the boating there. I think you need a MFD that's at least 7 inches since you'll be moving much faster now. You can buy many 'black box' recieive-only AIS units for under $200, and I think that's a needed safety item around there. I don't advise Class-B transmitting AIS until quite experienced, partly because the pros and authorities assume that if you're a recreational boater transmitting AIS that you must know a lot more than you may actually do. Staying out of the way of threat targets is important, but you are not an important threat to anyone.
I don't like AIS VHF units like Bob's due to the tiny screen makes overall situational awareness tough compared to nav+radar+AIS on a huge 12 inch screen.
Why do you think you need a new VHF? All units since 1994 have DSC (input your MMSI) distress buttons. If yours has that, another alternative is to get a $200 black box rx-only AIS connected to your MFD instead.
Lots of options, have fun researching and shopping!
John

ssobol · Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:20 pm Post subject:

You might try "dual-lock" instead of velcro. It is more rigid. The problem with velcro or any similar type fastener is not the grip of the velcro to itself, it is the grip of the adhesive that holds the velcro in place.

Radar depends on how you use your boat. If it is purely for leisure on smaller waters or close to shore, you always have the option to sit out the fog until it clears up. You also probably won't do much running after dark. In that use case radar might not be that useful. If you HAVE to run in those situations radar can be a help. If you run far offshore, having radar on board might be useful for those situations where you are far out and fog (or darkness) rolls in before you can get back.

We have a 22. If the weather is bad we just don't go out. If we are out, our plan is to return or be at anchor for the night by the time it gets dark. In our area there is not many instances of fog.

I bought a used radar unit for my boat a couple of years ago, but so far there has not been any real incentive to actually install it, so I haven't gotten around to that yet.

IMO same thing goes for AIS. Unless you boat in the dark, fog, or bad weather, AIS is not going to tell you much that you can't already see just by looking out the windows. A C-Dory is a small, fairly fast boat that can go in shallow water. It is not maneuver constrained like larger boats, ships, and tows. If you come across something you need to avoid it is easy to get out of the way. While it might be nice, you don't really need to know that there is a ship 10 miles away that is heading your way at 12 knots so you can plan your avoidance maneuvering. For the most part, AIS will only tell you where large boats (e.g. yachts) or commercial ships are. It is all the smaller boats that don't carry AIS that you need to pay attention to most anyway (like the yahoo in the Bayliner over there that has been drinking beer all afternoon, or the jokers in the jetskis that are coming up fast behind you). If you are surprised by an AIS warning on a vessel, then you just haven't been paying attention to what's happening around you.

If it were me, the first thing I would get is a chartplotter with decent maps that has a depth finder. Doesn't need to be some fancy fishfinder, just something that gives depth readings.

gulfcoast john · Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:37 pm Post subject:

ssobol has some very good points, I don't disagree with any of them, esp since he runs a 22 and we don't.
Again, don't be in a rush to decide on what you need till you have at least a few dozen hours on your new boat.
Have Fun!
John

colbysmith · Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:43 pm Post subject:

If you are doing any boating offshore, especially with a chance of getting into fog, a radar is worth it's cost. I have radar, and while I don't purposely go out in fog, it has saved my keester a few times in entering fog while out or trying to get back in! It also helps to practice using it when you can see visually what you are seeing on radar! And don't be afraid to play with the buttons for various settings, etc! Colby

Snider · Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:02 pm Post subject: Thanks

Thanks, all great points. The VHF I have is a Ray45, and doesn't have DSC. I also thought all radios were required to have it, not sure how or why this installed one doesn't. You're probably right about not needing to transmit AIS, I just thought it may provide a safety factor. It's just the electronics that I'm clueless about, I've never really had to think about them other than turn on what was installed in other's boats. Like I mentioned earlier, most of my boats have been fairly simple secondary to not having a large main engine and batteries to support them.

I've had radar on a few big sailboats I've delivered and raced up the coast and just never really had the need to use it (other than to cross the favorable side of storms at night). The best piece of equipment I've used a few times has been a night spotting scope, especially helpful when coming into strange anchorages at night.

This forum is amazing, thank you all again for your time. I think I will leave the boat as is for a while and just get some time on her, and loosely plan for at least a newer VHF and Plotter at some point in the future.

South of Heaven · Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:03 pm Post subject:

Congrats on the new boat Snider! Have you really been lurking since 2013?? You're patient! I need to take some lessons from you....

Snider · Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:06 pm Post subject: Other issue

My other dilemma is that I have dual swim platforms installed. I had wanted a boat with an auxiliary engine, this sort of prevents that unless I build some sort of bracket to mount an outboard on the platform, or just remove one of them. The other problem, if I make a bracket then I don't have anywhere easy to store the auxiliary engine. I'm in no rush for this as for the time being I'll be in local waters and have a sea tow membership, but as we venture further I would like to be a little more self sufficient.

Snider · Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:08 pm Post subject: Ha

South of Heaven · Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:21 pm Post subject:

Awesome. These Brats won't let you down. The combined knowledge on here is staggering.

thataway · Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:34 pm Post subject:

DSC: Although DSC was authorized and required by an act in 1992, all Marine VHF radios manufactured after March 25 2011 had to have a separate channel 70 receive and call function--plus the normal marine frequency spectrum.
To get the full benefit of DSC one has to have GPS input into the Marine VHF. This can be from the chart plotter, or a built in receiver (as in the new Standard Horizon, Icom etc.

Also you have to program in your person MMSI number (Maritime Mobile Service Identity. It is a 9 digit unique number )--for cost of membership ($25 a year) from Boat US (unless you plan foreign voyages, then you need an FCC MMSI which is going to cost over $100, for the ships license etc...

So it is worth investing in a new radio which will give you all of the benefits.

ASI: No it is not essential, but I sure find it interesting in the major ports. You can tell how fast a ship is approaching, and you can identify a number of things about the vessel. For example a few years ago on San Francisco Bay, I noted a number of boats with AIS Class B transmitters. It only too a couple of minutes to realize that these were the race committee boats for the St. Francis YC, and thus I could predict where the racing sailboats would be going to their marks, and plot a course to avoid them. Then if the fog rolls in, or you get caught out after dark--you at least know where the really big ships and most tugs and tow etc are.

Radar Granted I sailed many thousands of miles without radar--and as long as you don't go out in the fog or when fog might occur, or when bad weather might occur (many storms are easily tracked on radar), or you may never go out at night, or get caught out at night...then no need for radar. Yes, you can always anchor, if it is shallow enough, and you are in a safe and protected place.

We in the past--and hopefully in the future--have done a fair amount of night boating. There it is a great aid. I guess the one thing we see which has always concerned me--even with a shoal draft C Dory, is a tug towing a barge. We regularly see barges poorly lit navigation lights, or not lit at all. The clue is two echos moving at the same speed and bearing! Don't get caught between tug and tow.

All of boating is far easier now than 40 years ago. It should be safer. Not sure I agree with John about people who have AIS knowing more about boating however...all you have to do is buy a boat, turn on all of the electronics, and follow the magenta line! You will get there safely (except for all of the other boats heading for that same magenta line and waypoint....) And with all of these electronic devices one does not even have to look out over the water...or so some believe...Sorry for the sarcasm. But I regularly see people in very expensive boats who just don't have a clue about the navigation rules, and how to operate a boat safely.

In my center console cat I have a 4" chart plotter and a 3" depth finder, plus a hand held VHF radio, with DSC (and my MMSI #)--I am mostly in the bays or ICW or less than 20 miles at sea--and this is more than enough...along with a local set of paper charts and a compass....I probably run this at night more than the C Dory, but feel more comfortable in the C Dory, since I have Radar, and then I watch the instruments and Marie is eyes on the water! (or visa versa)...