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Western Erie Canal - round trip?
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Wayne McCown



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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City/Region: Rochester
State or Province: NY
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have never docked at Corn Hill. We are familiar with this area of Rochester.
It does get busy there. Extremely so, during the Corn Hill Festival.
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pat.jack



Joined: 01 Aug 2011
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City/Region: Rochester
State or Province: NY
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:48 pm    Post subject: Erie Canal Trip Reply with quote

Hi Bruce,

Looks like you have received a number of good responses on the Western end of the Erie Canal. For the last few years we have been keeping our boat on the canal, in the Rochester area. I'm happy to hear you are interested in cruising this portion of the canal. Just to mention a few things, you may have thought of these, but just in case you did not. Check out the NY Canal Corporation web-site or Facebook page. Here is the web link-http://www.canals.ny.gov/. This is a great resource with lots of great suggestions and tips. You'll notice they are waiving the canal fees for 2018 for the 2nd year in a row, celebrating the 200th anniversary of the canal. You can sign up for 'notice to mariners' on the website. I would strongly suggest that. It will inform you of any emergency closures or delays on the canal system.

As far as Corn Hill is concerned, we take our boat there a few times per season. There is a nice restaurant at Corn Hill that we frequent with friends. It is not normally crowded with boats. Frequently our boat is the only one tied up there. It has power and water hookups, which are free for overnight stays. We have not stayed overnight at Corn Hill so I can't comment on the noise level.

If you'd like to contact me send me a PM and I would be happy to pass along any other info you'd like. If you do happen to come through this area, and our schedules work out, I'd be happy to show you a bit of the Rochester area. By the way, I have been through Little Falls, and the lock is pretty impressive, but honestly, all the locks are pretty cool, and the lock masters are friendly and helpful. Other places to dock in the Rochester area are the towns of Spencerport (no overnight fee) with very nice amenities for boaters(2 night limit) and the town of Pittsford (Schoen Place) is really nice with lots of restaurants, shops and a micro-brewery.
Regards,
Jack Howell
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Wayne McCown



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 368
City/Region: Rochester
State or Province: NY
C-Dory Year: 1999
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Little Mac
Photos: Little Mac
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bruce: Jack is right re Spencerport, a delightful village (near our home in West Chili). We once docked there during the Spencerport Canal Days: even then, not overcrowded.

Jack: Where do you keep your boat "in the Canal" in the Rochester area? We keep ours at our cottage in Barker, and regularly launch into L. Ontario at Golden Hill SP. Based on your comments, I look forward to docking at Corn Hill.
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little wing



Joined: 21 Sep 2016
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City/Region: Oakland
State or Province: MI
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A month or two ago I thought I signed up for text message alerts on canals.ny.gov. I must of screwed it up. I see two alerts from late January that i did not receive, so I just signed up again for email receipt instead. Thanks Jack for the note on 2018 fees. That's why I revisited.

I like the comments on favorite spots to visit and stay. These go on my to do list. Doing the round trip method I think we'll be able to hit the ones we want while keeping on the move.
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pat.jack



Joined: 01 Aug 2011
Posts: 99
City/Region: Rochester
State or Province: NY
C-Dory Year: 2003
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Vessel Name: C-renity
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Bruce and Wayne,

We've been docking our boat at Allen's Marina in Greece. The marina is not much to look at, but it is very convenient for us. We live in Greece, so it is literally minutes from our house. Tony D's is the restaurant I was referring to at Corn Hill. They've had trouble keeping restaurants open at Corn Hill, they could use more traffic there! It is a nice ride up the Genesee River from the canal, so it makes for a good trip with friends.

Bruce, best of luck with your planning. If you hit either Seneca Lake (Watkins Glen) or Cayuga Lake (Ithaca) as part of your Erie Canal trip you can't go wrong. They are both beautiful lakes, with lots of wineries you can dock and visit. You would pass through Seneca Falls on the way to these lakes, and that is another pretty town, with nice dock facilities to tie up and spend a night.
Jack
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RichardM



Joined: 28 Mar 2012
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City/Region: Akron
State or Province: OH
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After trying several days ago to sign up for notices to mariners from canals.ny.gov, I never got the email to allow confirmation from them. I'm trying their alternate confirmation process now, but an email with their instructions hasn't yet arrived.

Earlier this winter I ordered the NY Canals Cruising Guide. When an online order failed to go through, I sent a check by mail. In return I got a brand new 2006 edition -- in other words, 11 years old by the time it came. Nothing on the website said that the available edition would be an older one. Lots of things must have changed sine 2006.

My opinion of the NY canals management is, shall we say, now a great deal below average.

Any suggestions for getting up to date information will be welcome.
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pat.jack



Joined: 01 Aug 2011
Posts: 99
City/Region: Rochester
State or Province: NY
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, is it Richard?

I saw your comments on the Erie Canal and the managements' responsiveness. I checked our copy of the Cruising Guide for the Canal, and our copy is also from 2006. We ordered ours a few years back. I was thinking of ordering a new copy, looks like it is not worth it-if that's the copy you just received.

As far as the notice to Mariners is concerned, my wife signed us up on Facebook awhile back (I am not a Facebook user!). Our last alert came on January 31st (Here's the address for the notice we received:cantransalert@canals.ny.gov Not sure if this will help you. I suspect there will be very few notices issued until the canal opens this Spring. A few years back, when we were members, and active in the US Power Squadron, we attended a Conference and the Chief Engineer (I believe that was his job title) gave a detailed talk on the canal. I was looking for his contact info for you, since he is an enthusiastic supporter of the system. But with my paper filing 'system', I could not lay my hands on it. If I do find his contact info, I'll post it here.

Here's my personal 'editorial' comments regarding the canal system, for what they're worth. I know the Canal System is under quite a bit of financial pressure, since it is heavily subsidized by NYS, and I expect there will be additional financial pressure this year, due to a forecasted, large, budget deficit for NY. The Canal is not a money maker for the state, by any stretch. So, hopefully you will receive a response from your inquiries directly to the Canal System. In any event, the canal operators are friendly and helpful, and the towns along the canal are very welcoming to boaters-at least that has been our experience.
Jack Howell
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ssobol



Joined: 27 Oct 2012
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City/Region: SW Michigan
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't know how the canal system works in NY, but maybe they need to have each town along the way "sponsor" their section of the canal, rather than having the state pay for it all. Not just the local docking facilities and amenities, but the whole maintenance for that section.
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pat.jack



Joined: 01 Aug 2011
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City/Region: Rochester
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it wasn't for NYS, I think the system would collapse under the cost. For a small town that happened to have a lock facility to maintain, the cost would probably sink their town budget when the lock needed an upgrade. I recall some pretty large $ amounts being referenced at the presentation I attended. It was in the $millions for the rebuild of a single lock undergoing a rebuild. The concrete wall surfaces of the locks take quite a beating, between the water and the winters in upstate NY. Even though they drain the canal in the winter, it's pretty rough. The state assumes that cost, not the individual town.
Jack
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journey on



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When we went through the Eire Canal in 2001, I had a tour of the canal maintenance shop. Fascinating, but the important information was that the railroad which runs along the canal AND the canal were under the same organization. The railroad made and provided the money and the canal benefited.

As I understood it, if the canal had to turn a profit, or even pay its own way, it would be shut down, as its only for recreational use, no commercial traffic.

Boris
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pat.jack



Joined: 01 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, the Canal Corp is now under the NYS Power Authority. The Canal was under the NYS Thruway management before it was moved to the Power Authority in the last year or so. It was moved from the Thruway Authority because it was too much of a financial burden on the Thruway, and it was literally causing the toll rates to rise on the road. As you can imagine, commercial truckers and others were not too happy about that.

As far as commercial traffic on the canal goes, there is still some commercial traffic, and the Canal Authority welcomes it. There is just not much of it, which is understandable today, with the NYS Thruway and railroads literally sharing the right of way with the canal. The canal was built on the early 1800's, predating the railroads. There is great history connected to the canal, and it paved the way for lots of growth in our country. I understand the NYS Constitution stipulates the operation of the canal. So, the state won't shut down the Erie Canal unless it changes the state constitution. That could always happen, but it would involve all the politics and voting with changing that.

Based on what I see on our western end of the canal, there is lot more activity on the Canal path/trailway than there is on the water. It's my opinion that NYS now looks upon the canal as a significant piece of our history, and they see it as an investment in helping economic growth along the canal in upstate NY. Lots of restaurants and shops have popped up along the canal. As a matter of fact, we're meeting friends for dinner tonight at one of those places! 200 years ago the canal was a huge financial success, paying for itself within a few years of opening. I think we all recognize those days are long gone. Even though we have boated on the canal, I could understand if it had to shut down operations if it was simply decided by financial viability. I believe NYS understands that, and that is one of the reasons the state keeps the fees for boaters at a reasonable level. If we had to pay 'as we go', we would certainly boat elsewhere. At least that's my 2 cents. We'll enjoy the canal for as long as we can.
Jack Howell
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RichardM



Joined: 28 Mar 2012
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City/Region: Akron
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the comments. They pushed me to do some web (and memory) searching. So far, here's more info.

Yes, the railroad often follows the canal. Canals came first in early America. When railroads came along in the early 1800s they noticed how canals had already laid out nice flat rights of way -- often with huge teams of laborers -- and they said, let's go there too. The RR's were direct competitors, built stations in the same towns, and even tried to sabotage canal structures (along the Chesapeake and Ohio Canal the railroad planted explosives under big canal aqueducts!).

And yes, the NY Canal authority was moved from the thruway authority to the power authority in 2016:
http://www.bcnys.org/inside/Legmemos/2015-16/s6408a9008-TEDArticleVII-BudgetBill-PartQ.html
(That link also says canal income is a fraction of one percent of canal upkeep costs.)

With electric power utilities becoming much less profitable these days, you might guess the power authority won't be eager to pour money into the canal system. And that's already their worry. Here's a link on that:
https://www.politico.com/states/new-york/albany/story/2017/08/01/nypa-sees-looming-capital-expenses-for-canal-system-113695

To their credit, the power authority immediately ran a competition to "reimagine the canals:"
http://www.publicnow.com/view/B274B7133ECEBEB0AE300BEB7430B19565602113?2018-01-31-02:00:11+00:00-xxx4741
It looks like they also shortened the navigation season and settled a labor dispute with two unions. It would be fun to be a fly on the wall in those board meetings....

A big part of the hope is that active canals will draw enough recreation and tourism to pay for themselves in new business and jobs, revitalizing towns, reputational benefits and more. But it's easy to see how a business model approach could discount their "public goods" value as having little dollar value, and put them on the back burner when "real decisions" have to be made.
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journey on



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, buried in the announcement that the NY Canal authority was moved from the thruway authority to the power authority in 2016 was the little gem that the NY canal system (not just the Eire Canal) brought in $400 million in tourist trade, whilst costing $100 million to maintain. 4 to ! on your investment; hows that for a hard headed business decision?

Those towns along the canal system are having a hard time making a living. I hope NY doesn't make it harder by eliminating one of the greatest boating thrills in the USA.

Boris
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pat.jack



Joined: 01 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed Boris. We think the canal is a great resource. We're hoping it stays open for another 200 years. But, in today's financial situation/political environment who knows. It would be hard to imagine it not operating, and no one is talking about it shutting down. Much of upstate NY is struggling for economic growth, and our tax burden does not help. But, we're hopeful that things will improve. Bottom line, the canal is very scenic, and fun to boat and travel along.

Oh, while I'm thinking of it, the economic cost may be a little understated. The town of Fairport, which is just east of Rochester, has an historic and unique Swing Bridge over the canal. It is just starting a major rebuild. The bridge will be left in the open position, to allow boat traffic to pass while the bridge is undergoing the refurb. for a year or so. Road traffic will be rerouted. To maintain the historic look of the bridge involves lots of additional costs, they are literally casting the gears to replace them, as well as all the original cabling to operate the bridge. I understand that this bridge refurb falls under Transportation costs not under the canal budget. I'm glad to see the effort to maintain the historic look, but it does not come cheap. As noted, operating income from boating fees does not come close to covering these costs.

Enjoy the canal, and appreciate the history associated with it. I think it is an underutilized resource, as far as boating is concerned.
Jack
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ssobol



Joined: 27 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The question would be in they shut it down, what would they do with it?

If you left it alone it will fall into disrepair, turn into a swamp or bog, and be a hazard to the locals. If you drain it, it is still a hazard and the structure will decay more quickly.

The option would be to drain it and fill it in, but that is going to cost some serious $.
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