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Seattle Boat Show - Such a sparse showing
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kaelc



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 411
City/Region: Saanich
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Island Magic
Photos: Stil-Afloat
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The guys at the booth were not very attentive given I was carrying a hefty down payment for a new boat or a full payment for a used C-Dory. We drooled over the Tomcat Friday at the show and would have loved to have seen a video of it in the water or asked about the cruiser vs the tomcat but I'm sure they were tired after a long show and were saving their energy for Seattle city slickers.

I had tickets to the show from a broker who had arranged a very disappointing sea trial of a 25 that afternoon. Fortunately, after reading the broker the riot act, the amazing service manager replaced both the batteries and took us out for a good Puget sound sea trail after viewing the floating dock in the morning. After giving it a good scrub for an hour in the brokers yard, before bringing it home to show the wife, we got home at 11 pm and managed to fit the 25 in our driveway.

Looking at the price tag on the Tomcat and all the other boat sure helped us pull the trigger, on our used one!
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Ordutch1975



Joined: 06 Jun 2017
Posts: 255
City/Region: Portland
State or Province: OR
Vessel Name: Boatless :-(
Photos: PennyBridge
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bigger question is what is the long term plan for NMI. Ron is not a spry chicken anymore - what happens when he retires? I dunno my friends. I think the problem in part is that the C-Dory line fills a niche but I am not sure there is much passion on the builders side to grow it or improve it beyond what it already is. I spoke with the local dealer here and sales are not easy to come by. In our local market (PDX) Aluminum boats are where its at if you are in the business of sales. My local dealer (have I mentioned they are awesome Smile) sells new boats in addition to their existing business maintenance/repair/consignment not as a main focus.
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"And it is an interesting biological fact that all of us have, in our veins the exact same percentage of salt in our blood that exists in the ocean, and, therefore, we have salt in our blood, in our sweat, in our tears. We are tied to the ocean. And when we go back to the sea, whether it is to sail or to watch it, we are going back from whence we came. " -JFK
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Wefings
Dealer


Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2086
City/Region: Panhandle
State or Province: FL
Photos: Cruise Ship #4
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread is sadly amusing . Almost none of you are new boat buyers , yet the postulating about making and selling new boats keeps coming . They have simply priced themselves out of the market and have zero innovation happening. All that flash you see on the Ranger Tugs will go to hell quickly ,and is not built nearly as well as a C Dory . But it sells boats . I remember the Livingstons saying Ill never put an outboard on a boat,I hate outboards .
They dazzle em with 10 pounds of *hi* in a 5 pound bag.

I figured it out, Ill let somebody else run the new boat museum and Ill keep giving folks what they want . Good used ones and good service.
How to make a fortune in the new C Dory business ? Start with a large fortune and get out with a small one.
Marc

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Since 1909
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forrest



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 381
City/Region: Chehalis
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 26 Venture
Vessel Name: Long Story
Photos: Long Story
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ordutch1975 wrote:
In our local market (PDX) Aluminum boats are where its at if you are in the business of sales.


That's fine if you keep your boat only in fresh water but ALL aluminum boats used in salt water will eventually corrode. It's just a matter of time before people realize that and go back to glass.
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kaelc



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 411
City/Region: Saanich
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Island Magic
Photos: Stil-Afloat
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wefings wrote:
This thread is sadly amusing . Almost none of you are new boat buyers , yet the postulating about making and selling new boats keeps coming . They have simply priced themselves out of the market and have zero innovation happening. All that flash you see on the Ranger Tugs will go to hell quickly ,and is not built nearly as well as a C Dory . But it sells boats . I remember the Livingstons saying Ill never put an outboard on a boat,I hate outboards .
They dazzle em with 10 pounds of *hi* in a 5 pound bag.

I figured it out, Ill let somebody else run the new boat museum and Ill keep giving folks what they want . Good used ones and good service.
How to make a fortune in the new C Dory business? Start with a large fortune and get out with a small one.
Marc


I think one of the problems with getting priced out of the market is the supply of labor and the cost of doing business on the water in WA, which contributes to being priced out of the market. Service from a mediocre mechanic at a medium-sized dealer is $159 an hour on lake Washington, plus taxes if the consumer is paying for it. What they are paying in labor rates is amazingly low in comparison but healthcare and payroll costs are not cheap. I'm not super knowledgeable about the fiberglass, rigging and canvas labor rates but with the economy booming, I think it is tough to hold onto people as there are lots of big yacht retrofits going on.

The prep and service you put into a boat for sale and marketing it Marc is amazing compared to the dealer/broker I bought from up here and one I was talking to on the East Coast.
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PaulNBriannaLynn



Joined: 26 Oct 2012
Posts: 757
City/Region: Fort White
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: TBD
Photos: Lorelei
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since when have they ever had more than 1 or 2 c-dorys on display? I remember one year maybe 2006 they had the full lineup. Otherwise its usually an example or two of the c-dory, and a couple sea sports and an osprey or two. Remember NMI has a variety of boats they manufacture to display in their limited space.
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2007 22 cruiser sold 10/2021
2009 Parker 23 sold 10/2017
2003 22 cruiser sold 3/2016
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chromer



Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 952
City/Region: Anacortes
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 19 Angler
Photos: Checkpoint II
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://nlpnotes.com/post-purchase-rationalization/

"Post-purchase rationalization, also known as Buyer’s Stockholm Syndrome, is a cognitive bias whereby someone who has purchased an expensive product or service overlooks any faults or defects in order to justify their purchase. It is a special case of choice-supportive bias.

Expensive purchases often involve a lot of careful research and deliberation, and many consumers will often refuse to admit that their decision was made in poor judgement. Many purchasing decisions are made emotionally, based on factors such as brand-loyalty and advertising, and so are often rationalized retrospectively in an attempt to justify the choice.

For example, a consumer cannot decide between two popular video game consoles, but in the end decides to purchase the one that many of their peers also own. After purchasing it, they may find few games for their console worth purchasing, and more for the console they did not purchase. However, they do not wish to feel they made the wrong decision, and so will attempt to convince themselves, and their peers, that their original choice was the correct one, and the consumer’s opinion is better than everyone’s opinion, i.e. using sour grapes arguments.

This rationalization is based on the Principle of Commitment and the psychological desire to stay consistent to that commitment. Some authorities would also consider this rationalization a manifestation of cognitive dissonance."

Most C-Dory buyers never gets over this rationalization process. Thus we come back to this time and again.

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Checkpoint II (SOLD 10/2020)
Alure Bertram 28
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ken35216



Joined: 12 Mar 2013
Posts: 569
City/Region: Destin, Florida
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2017
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Lady Onyx
Photos: ken35216
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

C-Dories have always been a niche boat. They've never sold many and I don't think all the marketing in the world would change that. They are a real boat's boat and there are not that many real boaters out there. Lots of drunks (stoners included) but very few real boaters. I see this at my marina ever time I go.

I love my almost new C-Dory and thankful they are still being built as I had an 2007, which was very nice and in like new condition, but I like my new one MUCH better. To me it was worth the $$$.

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2007 25 Cruiser 150 Suzuki (2013-2016)

2017 25 Cruiser 200 Yamaha (2017-present)
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ssobol



Joined: 27 Oct 2012
Posts: 3361
City/Region: SW Michigan
State or Province: MI
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SoBELLE
Photos: SoBelle
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ken35216 wrote:
They've never sold many and I don't think all the marketing in the world would change that. .


How many is "They've never sold many"? There are 3000 entries listed in "Our C-Dorys" on this site. Some are Ranger tugs and I'm sure that there are some duplicates (ownership changes). Also, considering that there are owners do not participate on this site (like the guy I bought mine from) which would increase the total.

This seems like a pretty good number for a "niche" boat.

Another "niche" boat is the Marinaut 21. How many of those got made? Maybe 6?
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ken35216



Joined: 12 Mar 2013
Posts: 569
City/Region: Destin, Florida
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2017
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Lady Onyx
Photos: ken35216
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ssobol wrote:
ken35216 wrote:
They've never sold many and I don't think all the marketing in the world would change that. .


How many is "They've never sold many"? There are 3000 entries listed in "Our C-Dorys" on this site. Some are Ranger tugs and I'm sure that there are some duplicates (ownership changes). Also, considering that there are owners do not participate on this site (like the guy I bought mine from) which would increase the total.

This seems like a pretty good number for a "niche" boat.

Another "niche" boat is the Marinaut 21. How many of those got made? Maybe 6?


Of those 3,000 how many are just looking at C-Dories?

"2010 U.S. Recreational Boat Registration Statistics Report Total registrations decrease slightly to 12.5 million"

3,000 (at most 3,000 over 20+ years) out of 12.5 million boats would, to me, be considered a niche boat builder.
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Jake



Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 171

PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, so take that. Shocked Smile
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ken35216



Joined: 12 Mar 2013
Posts: 569
City/Region: Destin, Florida
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2017
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Lady Onyx
Photos: ken35216
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jake wrote:
Yeah, so take that. Shocked Smile


I didn't mean to sound mean. Sorry!!!
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kaelc



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 411
City/Region: Saanich
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Island Magic
Photos: Stil-Afloat
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.tradeonlytoday.com/industry-news/boat-sales-topped-250000-in-2016

These stats are interesting, I'm guessing there may be less than a thousand boats sold yearly that are in the pocket cruiser category?
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ken35216 wrote:

Of those 3,000 how many are just looking at C-Dories?

"2010 U.S. Recreational Boat Registration Statistics Report Total registrations decrease slightly to 12.5 million"

3,000 (at most 3,000 over 20+ years) out of 12.5 million boats would, to me, be considered a niche boat builder.


The list of CDorys shows slightly over 2600 boats, but the list of C Brat members shows almost 8,000 members--there are a number of people who view the sight but never register. About half of the 8,000 never made a post....S I would guess they are the lookers...Of the 2600, there are a lot of duplicates, but there are also a lot of C Dory owners who either don't visit or don't know of the list.

I think that Ken is correct; the C Dory is a niche boat. I consider it a "Trailerable trawler" class. There are very few of these--and even less until Ranger Tug came along....There are only a very few builders (and currently the Wrights build several of the lines.

I have always believed as Marc Grove from Wefings commented--the interior of the Ranger Tugs--and their like--including many of the larger power boats begin to look a bit shabby in 10 to 20 years, where as the C Dory, only needs a good cleaning and maybe new seat covers. We have spent hundreds of hours rehabbing the interiors of even "basic" wood interiors, with headliners. The high gloss varnish even takes longer.

I certainly agree with Chromer that the post buyer's remorse occurs with some boat buyers, and some boats. The only time I have had that was when I found out that a surveyor I trusted, was on the payroll of the yacht brokerage. He and the seller had outright lied about some issues I had asked about on the boat...I should have gone with my gut instinct (which was that something catastrophic had happened to the boat at one time....it had.) I repaired what needed to be done (the cost of most of our C Dory',) and enjoyed the boat. Told the next buyer about what happened and what had been done to repair it. If you have buyer's remorse, you didn't do your home work, or you don't belong on a boat!

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Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL
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Leo Smith



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 193
City/Region: West Seattle
State or Province: WA
Photos: Leo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The boat building business has got to be one of the riskiest enterprises to enter. Looking back, there have been many northwest-built boats that are no longer being made, including Uniflite, Reinell, Cruise-a-Home, Jolly Roger, Mirage, Fiberform, Sabercraft, Bellboy, Olympic, Tollycraft, Fairliner, Tiderunner, Sunrunner, and Freedom. Given the multiple ownerships, I find it amazing that C-Dory has enjoyed a continuous production run of over 35 years.
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