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Kayak death south of Seattle
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TOGO



Joined: 02 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:29 pm    Post subject: Kayak death south of Seattle Reply with quote

There was a article about a kayak death and one in critical condition in the Spokane Review does any one have information on this.

Guy
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localboy



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Seattle victim was in a paddle boat outside Burien (between Vashon Island & the "mainland") They encountered "rough weather" and used cell phones to call for help. Our Marine Unit assisted in the SAR mission. I don't know many details.

The weather has been unusually "nice" as far as winter goes, but the winds kicked up the last few evenings along with showers. Temps are not very severe, but the water is still cold. Why someone would go out, on The Sound, in a paddle boat this time of year...? Not very smart.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/man-dies-woman-critical-after-paddleboat-capsizes/

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Pandion



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The water temperature in Puget Sound is about 48 degrees now, and, unfortunately, most lands people have no idea how quickly that water can kill. No one should be out in a boat that size, this time of year, without a dry suit, lots of training and a bombproof rescue plan.
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hardee



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another totally preventable boating fatality. The weather predictions were for increasing winds, up from 10 to 15, increasing to 20 to 30 with higher gusts. No PFD's and not wearing appropriate attire, as mentioned, a Dry suit or survival suit. She got lucky, their cell phone worked. Well, at least it alerted someone they were in trouble. They were in the water 30 to 60 minutes before being retrieved.

All preventable by taking common sense precautions. (Like on that day, stay home and read a book by the fire, or go for a hike in an open field. Sorry, and I know, I am probably preaching to the choir, but I guess I am just frustrated that people are sooooooooo ridiculously ignorant of natures basic rules, and nature always wins if you don't know what you are doing.

I guess it takes more but a good start is to make "adult" decisions.

Sorry for the loss to the families.

Harvey
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localboy



Joined: 30 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if there was some "liquid courage" involved. Cocktail Beer
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Pandion



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update
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thataway



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Truly amazing--I suspect that the hypothermia (core temp of 77*) helped to preserve her vital organs, despite respiratory and cardiac collapse. Add in immediate CRP when the CG boat arrived, and not assuming that she was dead, and the "heart lung" machine, which supported her until she recovered!

If you are first on the scene, don't assume that someone without pulse or respiration is dead; do the CPR.

Also confirms that everyone of us who is a boater should know and be certified in CRP!

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Pandion



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The article says the young woman, who was found face down in the water, "made a full recovery." Bob, how long can a person be deprived of oxygen before brain damage occurs? Is it possible the cold protected her from that?
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localboy



Joined: 30 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow.
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AstoriaDave



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is phenomenal. Face down, in the cold water, no air exchange, for an unknown interval. I have read accounts similar to this when the person (often a toddler) was similarly deprived of air, and achieved full recovery. But I cannot recall any for adults.

Bob, do you have any idea how many full recoveries are documented?

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thataway



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know how many recoveries are documented after hypothermia--because even if we had a full accounting in the US, there would be many others in countries literature other than English. I feel that the hypothermia played a major role here. With a core temp. of 77* this is profound hypothermia.

There are some good studies that hypothermia after cardiac arrest outside of the hospital setting increases the survival rate, and the brain function. There are many times that hypothermia is used during procedures to preserve tissue function. However "Targeted" hypothermia is never as low as this 77*!

Normally 4 minutes is the length of time without oxygen before there is brain damage. There are a number of cases where hypothermia prolonged that time--Again, I don't know a total number.

If the woman truly did make a full recovery, then it is extraordinary--4 hours in 50* water, unknown time without cardiac or respiratory function. We cannot equate the 4 hours, since she may have stopped breathing / and had cardiac collapse some time after entering the water. It does not sound as if she had aspirated water, and that may have been a salvation.

The moral, (beside don't go out in a paddle boat in bad weather in the middle of the night)--is if you come upon someone who is unresponsive, do not assume that they are dead, even though you cannot find a pulse or respirations. Do CPR anyway--and it might be a positive outcome. There is no way to predict at the scene of an accident that the patient may not recover.
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RobLL



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/we-thought-wed-pulled-a-dead-person-out-of-the-water-woman-recovers-after-puget-sound-rescue/

There was some pretty cutting edge medical technology (and engineering) involved with all of this. Pretty amazing.
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localboy



Joined: 30 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The moral, is if you come upon someone who is unresponsive, do not assume that they are dead, even though you cannot find a pulse or respirations. Do CPR anyway--and it might be a positive outcome. There is no way to predict at the scene of an accident that the patient may not recover.


Part of our training is in the use of AEDs; defibrillators. I had some concerns about shocking a pregnant woman (an example). The instructor simplified it for me: if the unit says shock, shock. She's already "dead" so you're not gonna hurt her.

In other words, you and the victim have nothing to lose and only his/her life to save...this includes CPR. In the field we keep doing it until the medics arrive and take over. I've seen them whisk folks to the ER just as Dr Bob stated and somehow they survive.
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RobLL



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would this women have recovered without the external heating, oxygenating, and de-carbon dioxiding of her blood at Harborview?
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thataway



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RobLL wrote:
Would this women have recovered without the external heating, oxygenating, and de-carbon dioxiding of her blood at Harborview?

My opinion is that she would not have survived. But there are so many variables, that this is almost like looking into a crystal ball...Entering in is the hypothermia, and the assumption that she had not taken significant water into her lungs. If she had, the chances of survival would have been far less, if any.

Generally if a person is under water over 10 minutes the chance of recovery is far less--minimal But there is a difference in salt water vs fresh water "drowning" physiologically. There is a case where a boy was trapped under fresh water for 42 minutes, and survived to totally recover.

The record for "breath holding is over 24 minutes (under water in starting in cold water, which is warmed--after breathing pure oxygen). Without oxygen berating it is 11 min 35 seconds. The depth record free diving (without breathing pure oxygen is over 253 meters! (of course this is riding a sled to the bottom, and going into a recompression chamber immediately after the dive.) The 253 meter dive was not accredited, but it was documented. The bad news is that the diver did have bends and suffered at least temporary damage....

Don't try this at home.
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