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skydog1
Joined: 24 Feb 2020
Posts: 18
City/Region: Friday harbor
State or Province: WA
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 Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:31 pm Post subject: 600 hours |
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Wow.. that's a great endorsement right there.
Good to hear that. The dealer in Mt. Vernon, Marty, really seemed to favor the Suzuki as well, I just thought was for other reasons but he said a lot of the same things so maybe not just a sales pitch:-)
My Ford has one Powertrain Control Module (PCM) which controls all the other "stuff" I certainly do not know how many it controls nor do I claim to know.
My dealer had told me two main control computers.... so my comment may have been misleading or inaccurate. I do know if it fails it will go to the dealer. I don't plan on diagnosing that if it happens. My point was just that the tech has advanced so far beyond what it was 20 - 30 years ago and we benefit from it. There is also something to be said for old technology.
The old diesels which were new at the time powered a ton of Grand Banks boats among others that are still running just fine today and super easy to work on and maintain. Parts are still available in most cases. They are workhorses for sure:-)
But as far as outboards go... man... night and day:-) |
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gulfcoast john
Joined: 14 Dec 2012
Posts: 989
City/Region: PENSACOLA
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2010
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Cat O' Mine
Photos: CAT O' MINE
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| Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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I wouldn't buy a large outboard engine from any manufacturer that doesn't also manufacture piccolos.
Hope that helps.
John
_________________
John and Eileen Highsmith
2010 Tom Cat 255, Cat O' Mine
Yamaha F150, LXF150 |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20803
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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| Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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This "Test" is biased (as many are) toward the Evinrude. The one fatal flaw is that the tester claims he does not want to "over rev" the Yamaha. In fact the engine is rated WOT at 6,000 RPM, and he only gets it to 3500 RPM which shows a huge amount of slip. and never comes close to WOT.. Yet the Evinrude, is propped (with the different gear ratio) so hit can reach at least 5500 RPM--better 6000 RPM. With my first 25, I only had a Honda 130, same block at the 115. I could not get WOT at Lake Powell...(Altitude about 3700 feet). I had to go from a 15" prop to an 11" prop to get the boat to perform properly.
There have been a number of "Tests" thru the years, with the same flaw--not using the proper prop.
One of the fallacies in many cases is using the same prop which is recommended for twin engine runs, with a single engine. You have to go way down in pitch. To plane many boats on a single engine you have to carry the prop, and then put the prop on at sea.
Evinrude has along and great reputation (well not so good with some of the early Fitch engines..and a few of the first generation of this series.). Lots of people like them and get good use. I personally am not sold on them being the proper engine for my personal use.
| Quote: | | Wonder if C-Dory has an RD dept. that would look into it? I imagine they are contracted with the manufacturers they are using. Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki. I believe they are more benificial to go fast boats. We'd just like to cruise and enjoy the scenery at lower RPM's with some on tap if need be etc.. |
R & D ? The lines and basic molds were laid down in 1987 for the 22, and 1995 for the 25. There is no "R & D". The C Dorys are often rigged at the dealers (More profit for the dealer). You are correct that some lines use only a certain engine on their hulls. Often the engine manufacturer is owned by the same company as the hull manufacturer.
If you want fast--most of the really fast boats have been powered by Merc. But the racing engines don't compare to what you and I run. I am most familiar with the Formula one power boats: 20' long 7' wide, and weight of less than 900#. Mercury Marine V6 two stroke engine generates 425 horsepower at 10,500 RPM. I rode in a two seat demo, and it reached a speed of 138 mph--top speed for racing (single person) boats is over 150 mph. They can reach 100 nautical mph in 4 seconds.
We enjoy slow cruising, but there are times you want to get home fast, out run weather, etc--and a turn of speed becomes a safety issue. If you only want to go slow--then I believe that some of the original 25 "cruise ships" were supplied with 50 hp outboards...displacement speeds only..
With the correct prop, I am sure the Evinrude would would have still been faster, but how much is not known. Yep, the test boat had a dead rise of almost 22*, and that is why it is rated for 400 hp, vs the 115 for the c Dory 22...[/quote]
_________________
Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL |
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journey on
Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 3595
City/Region: Valley Centre
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: journey on
Photos: Journey On
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| Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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I'm a firm believer that lighter is better as long as one doesn't compromise "things". So, here is a list of outboards and their weight in lbs. For a typical 22, I used 115 HP. Long and short shaft, I don't know which a 22 uses.
Mercury 359 363
Yamaha 377 386
Evinrude 390 426
Suzuki 401 412
Merc HO 455
Honda 478 485
The Honda weight is the same for a 115 and 150, but it's what is listed.
Boris |
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skydog1
Joined: 24 Feb 2020
Posts: 18
City/Region: Friday harbor
State or Province: WA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:04 pm Post subject: Thanks Bob |
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Yeah, not looking at a go fast boat. I don't see the Dory as that but as needed like you mentioned. Sure, some flat water, be nice to haul the mail if for nothing but fun:-)
I suppose the test is leaning in favor of the Evinrude but they did change props andI thought they were WOT. I'll watch again, maybe I missed that.
And unbiased test would be nice. I think it would be very interesting to try one on a C-Dory for the knowledge, but none of us want o be guinea pig unless they provided the motor. For all the reasons stated in many of these comments seems like the obvious choice is 4-stroke, no question. I guess I should go down the twin verse single road can of worms. I'm still researching and have looked at many of the posts here.... good information.
All manufacturers should have R&D. But I guess what you're saying is that it's a tried and true and established design so no improvements or changes are warranted. Maybe the C-Dory can't be improved but I find that hard to believe. Maybe the funds just aren't there for that sort of thing. The companies I worked with had huge budgets. If it ain't broke:-)
Your fast boat experience sounds like a blast. I've been on some fast boats but not that fast. Hmmmm.... a 25 C-Dory doing 90 plus.. now that could be exciting.
We're not in it for speed. Want to explore and see things and be safe. Nice to know some speed is on tap though.
Hey Boris, man, the Honda is a fatty. I'm sure they make an awesome reliable product. But weight does concern me a bit. Especially in choppy water where we want to use trim etc.... it all adds up. Thanks for digging up those numbers.
I like the piccolo comment John:-) Single or twin pianos on your boat?
Kirk |
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localboy
Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 4656
City/Region: Lake Stevens via Honolulu
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: 'Au Kai (Ocean Traveler)
Photos: 'AU KAI
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| Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Sure, some flat water, be nice to haul the mail if for nothing but fun:-) |
Only full-throttled our 25 once, and that was the first outing, so the boat was empty & light and the water flat as a table. Peaked out at ~30 knots and was squirly as hell. It felt as if at any moment the boat could slide around 180*, like driving a rear wheeled car on ice.
_________________
"We can go over there...behind the 'little one'....."
Wife to her husband pointing @ us...from the bow of their 50-footer; Prideaux Haven 2013 |
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gulfcoast john
Joined: 14 Dec 2012
Posts: 989
City/Region: PENSACOLA
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2010
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Cat O' Mine
Photos: CAT O' MINE
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| Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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Kirk,
Twins, thanks for asking.
Plenty of room on a Tom Cat for them and Eileen's bagpipes.
John |
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Micahbigsur@msn.com
Joined: 27 May 2019
Posts: 484
City/Region: Big Sur
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sierra
Photos: Sierra
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| Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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After having a V-drive flatbottomed big block ski boat that would do over 90 and pull me on a big ski at over 80, and a tournament ski boat that would pull all day at 50, the 30+ we can do in Sierra when she is light seems a bit slow....though compared to 7 in our sailboats....it's all relative I guess, the C-dory seems a perfect compromise between speed, efficiency and accommodations.
_________________
Micah Curtis and Dana, RN
2003 C-dory 25 Sierra, 200, 9.9 and 2.5 Suzukis
2012 R25 SC Sequoia (2015-2018)
1978 Folkes 38 SV Audacious (2006-2015)
Micah, KJ6GUF, Dana, KJ6GXG |
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Robert H. Wilkinson
Joined: 26 Jan 2011
Posts: 1233
City/Region: Port Ryerse
State or Province: ON
Vessel Name: Romakeme IV
Photos: Romakeme IV
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| Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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If you want fast and like Yamaha - I just saw a 425hp V8 at the boat show!
And John - they make musical instruments as well !
Think the weight limit might be out the window though!
Rob
_________________
Talk to me and I will listen-- but if its not about boats or fishing all I will hear is bla,bla,bla,yada,yada,zzzzzzzz |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20803
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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| Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | All manufacturers should have R&D. But I guess what you're saying is that it's a tried and true and established design so no improvements or changes are warranted. Maybe the C-Dory can't be improved but I find that hard to believe. Maybe the funds just aren't there for that sort of thing. The companies I worked with had huge budgets. If it ain't broke:-) |
No that is not at all what I am implying. There is no R & D, because they bought the molds of a boat which has a loyal fallowing. Perhaps the best way to tell about the company is in their own words: (condensed)
| Quote: | HOW IT ALL BEGAN
.......Northwest Marine Industries has taken over as a manufacturing entity with strong history. At the helm of our operation is Ron Wright, who established the Sea Sport line of boats over 30 years ago with his brother David Wright and nephew David A. Wright. The family business dates back to 1955 when Sportsman Boats was located in Fairhaven and Ron and David’s father Frank was the owner. ...... After a hiatus from the boating industry, Ron has decided to return as the head of Northwest Marine Industries. Ron brings his expertise in creating quality boats along with his stellar reputation as an up front and honest businessman. Ron has partnered with his son Mark Wright, son-in-law Ryan Binning and our new production manager Greg Little. This distinguished team of four is committed to produce and distribute the highest quality products for boaters all across the world.
SeaSport boats are known in the industry as one of the most versatile and rugged boats available. At Northwest Marine Industries, we are also proud to announce that we will be building all models of the C-Dory, Osprey, Tomcat, and Skagit Orca lines. Our employees have a long history with these boats and are prepared and motivated to construct them all with superior and unparalleled craftsmanship.
...... All boats ordered are considered “Custom” and great care is taken in the details. Our dealers share our same values and are an extension of the NMI family.
.... All of our boats have familiar names, lines, and hulls, but our hope is to continue to upgrade finish and options according to desires of our customers. Northwest Marine Industries is a family business and customer driven, and we intend on continuing our industry leading marks for customer service. |
In other words C Dory is only one of several lines which the Wrights (Northwest Marine Industries, rescued). It is a small family company. The workers are dedicated, but not the highest paid. Building a fiberglass boat is a "dirty" business, with some risks...
This its not a mega company like Sea Ray, (Which has contracted even with the economic boom), where money is made by changing models and designs. Many small boats use pirated lines, do not use real naval architects, and some are only run by a handful of people. Some have a good reputation, but without change would not exist. There are a number of tried designs which do well. My personal feeling is that the Tom Cat can be improved with some mold modifications to make the bridge deck higher off the water. Several others have made similar suggestion--but it never happens.
So if you were "head of R & D", just what would you consider as desirable modifications of the C Dory?  (Hint--R & D is not running different brand engines on a C Dory.. There are performance trials which do this: see boat test . com.). Also manufactures run performance tests on popular models. C Dory is a niche boat--
There are hydrodynamic naval engineers and Naval architects who do all sorts of experiments in both wind and water experimental settings--that is who does the R & D. For example the boats for the America's cup, or making a formula one racer, faster, with in the design perimeters. There have been some small boats which are definitely "out of the box". Such as ones like the BRABUS SHADOW 500 CABIN...certainly innovation... Any better? Not so sure.
Not helping with your motor decision, but an explanation why there is no R & D in the C Dory line. The boats still sell. Its a small company. |
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skydog1
Joined: 24 Feb 2020
Posts: 18
City/Region: Friday harbor
State or Province: WA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:57 pm Post subject: continued.... |
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John, love to hear those bagpipes:-)
Micah - man, you must have some serious quads! Those guys that ski to Catalina, nuts, no thanks.
Robert - yeah, 425 in a Dory... might need to add two sponsons in a pickle fork configuration:-) Not sure how this go into a speed discussion... gear heads:-)
The stock speed of a Dory is just fine....
Thataway:-) Ii guess we are extremely lucky or you guys are, I don't own one yet to have a C-Dory. I'm glad someone picked up the molds to continue the build. I have no suggestion as to improvents as I have yet to get on the water. We are part time on Friday Harbor, that may become full time at some point. Taking care of wife's older parents, and we were taking care of my dad, whom just passed. So we are back and fourth right now. I did just sell a SeaRay:-)
I have read about the issues with the Tomcat. To bad there is not the funding to make changes. I really really love the Aspen Cats... but that's in no way in the budget. I love the Targa's and Sargo's as well. But again, my wallet is a little to thin at the moment:-) We want to be able to go out on good weather days and explore the San Juans. And then after experience and time head out further.
The short term will be day trips and 3 days over nighters etc. My experience is all Southern CA when I was younger, on much larger boats than I can afford.
Anywho.... I see your points, all very valid. Thanks for giving us/me so much good info. I hope they keep building C-Dory's.
Take care, I may just off this discussion for a bit. Wife just got home after a couple weeks. Been a nice break:-)
Dumb question but if you are not a C-Dory owner (yet) can you still check out the rendezvous? |
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Micahbigsur@msn.com
Joined: 27 May 2019
Posts: 484
City/Region: Big Sur
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sierra
Photos: Sierra
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:26 am Post subject: |
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Skydog, that speed skiing was a long time ago when I had serious muscles and almost no sense. Also an ex-wife who loved driving fast. Flat as glass only and NEVER make a mistake over 80, I got messed up enough a few times wiping out at 50-60. And don't get me started on crazy motorcycle and Porsche stuff.....
A CD 25 with a great Suzuki 200 seems perfect now! |
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Knipet
Joined: 11 Nov 2018
Posts: 262
City/Region: Orcas Island
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: Pan-A-C'ya
Photos: Pan-A-C'ya
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:20 am Post subject: |
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| gulfcoast john wrote: | | I wouldn't buy a large outboard engine from any manufacturer that doesn't also manufacture piccolos. |
Now that there is funny! 
On the other hand, I wouldn't by an outboard from any manufacturer that didn't start out making weaving looms!  |
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skydog1
Joined: 24 Feb 2020
Posts: 18
City/Region: Friday harbor
State or Province: WA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 12:25 pm Post subject: I hear ya Mica |
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I raced motocross for over 30 years.... that was a time ago. Have had major back issues for 18 years. Very long story. But... I recently got my life back in a huge way.
2 months ago I had (2) artifical disc put in my lower back and (2) in my neck.
There went my new C-Dory 25 down payment for the short term. haha
But.. I feel amazing. After much surgery pain. Still slight pain but nothing like before. This was effecting every part of my life, Hence no boating for a long time. We drive a lot in our camper and that has always killed me. By the time we get anywhere I'm wasted.
So far I'm feeling amazing and have had some 6 hour drives already and feeling pretty good. Just started PT.
I have a new lease on life:-) So, time to get it in gear:-)
I know how hard those speed sports can be on a body... good thing we were young but paid a very high costly price. But I'd do it all again in a heart beat:-)
Take care. |
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Micahbigsur@msn.com
Joined: 27 May 2019
Posts: 484
City/Region: Big Sur
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sierra
Photos: Sierra
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| skydog, your back repair sounds amazing, I'm so glad your life is better. I hope you get your boat soon! Maybe there is hope for mine yet! |
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