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Yamaha vs Suzuki
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tsturm



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 1134
City/Region: Soldotna
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: JMR TOO
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Yamaha vs Suzuki Reply with quote

bschell wrote:
I have a Yamaha 90 hp engine on the 22' the year of the boat and engine is 2003. I have had no problems with this engine over the 14 years, it has 2000 hours. My wife and I are having a new boat built to be ready in July, my builder just got news over Christmas from Yamaha due to retooling at the factory (and other excuses from the factory that seems a little odd) all engines over 175 hp are sold out world wide and will not be available to purchase till early 2019.

Question #1: Can anybody add information that is in the know?

Question #2: Like I posted in the subject and this would be for the newer engines 2017 and 2018. How do you think they stack up (compare). I am trying to research as much info as I can about the Suzuki's


In 2012 I purchased & installed a DF-175 Suzuki on my 2003 25 cruiser, it now has 1500 trouble free hours on it. No flies on the Suzy.
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hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
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City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The original post was comparing Yamaha to something else Wink

Suzuki might be good, I don't know. There is mention made of considering your local service department or mechanic. Good advice. Also, considering your warrantee length is worth while. No one has yet mentioned that it might be worth considering your cruising area.

Tyboo noted the proliferation of the Yami's on the guide sleds down on the Columbia. That is also what I noticed up in Canada, (northern half of Vancouver Island) and I talked with several of the water taxi folks up there. Most were running the big yami's on the work boat ( water taxi or guided fishing), up into the 3-4000 hours bracket and then transferring them onto their personal boats for another 1-2000 hours.

The Yamaha dealers and service places are plenty going north of the boarder, and a US boat can go in anywhere there and get parts or service. There are not issues of taking your warrantee across the boarder. I don't know how that works with Suzuki, but I do know that with Honda, if you are a USA boat in Canadian water and have to go looking for parts or service in Canada, you are screwed. That has been noted here on this site before, and it could make a difference if you are considering extended cruising in CDN water. Might be something to consider too.

Harvey
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skydog1



Joined: 24 Feb 2020
Posts: 18
City/Region: Friday harbor
State or Province: WA
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:00 pm    Post subject: interesting post since I was just looking at dealer specs Reply with quote

I know this thread old but wanted to comment. I just received a price list from Marty for the entire C-Dory line. My wife and I are interested in a 25. We love the Tomcat but can't afford it right now.

We are hoping, praying to order a new 25 or find a new one next year. I just asked Marty what the build time is, haven't heard back yet. Or if we happened to run across a newer used one I would look a that also but that seems unlikely.

So I was just looking at motor packages. Not sure if twins or single and kicker. Single and kicker probably be my choice. But.... if an Evinrude 2-stroke can be spec'd that would be something I'd want to look at. As a former motocross racer I was able to rebuild my 2-strokes when I was a kid. I have also owned 4-stroke racing motorcycles and yes the power is amazing but they are a pain to work on and expensive. Great, now I have to do more research:-) I've heard great things about the Suzuki and that's probably the direction I'd go if 4-stroke.

I also owned a boat diesel engine service business years ago and have rebuilt many of the older diesels. The technology has gotten so much better and complicated with all engines. I won't touch my personal trucks and cars anymore.

I'll see what data I can find on the 2-strokes. Be interesting to learn more. I'll share if I learn anything worhtwhile.
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Micahbigsur@msn.com



Joined: 27 May 2019
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City/Region: Big Sur
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sierra
Photos: Sierra
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like your old diesels 2 strokes aren't what they used to be....they meet lean burn eco with a lot of technology and different mechanicals.
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2003 C-dory 25 Sierra, 200, 9.9 and 2.5 Suzukis
2012 R25 SC Sequoia (2015-2018)
1978 Folkes 38 SV Audacious (2006-2015)
Micah, KJ6GUF, Dana, KJ6GXG
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is sort of a love / hate relation with the Evinrudes these days. I probably would not consider any of the other 2 strokes. I used to run nothing but OMC motors before the 4 strokes.

For the 25, if I were to repower it would probably be the 4 cyl Yamaha 200 hp. The Suzuki 4 cyl. and the Yamaha is the same block as the 150. I got a quote on the Suzuki and it was a decent deal. I suspect you would pay a few thousand more for the Yamaha. I did have the 150 Suzuki's on the Tom Cat. They were superb engines on that boat. But it is a hull which lends itself to higher speeds (in the high 40's) and has a comfortable ride. The Yamaha is 2.8 Liters, the Suzuki is 2.867 Liter --practically the same. Suzuki 529 lbs, Yamaha 487 lbs. only 40 lbs difference. The gearing is different, but There are more larger props for the Suzuki (16" diameter). These would be for the extreme of trying to push a displacement boat. But coming onto a plane, I would rather have more blade area. (ie 15.5 vs 14.75). So the Suzuki wins there. It also boils down to what service is available.

Looking at Evinrude 2 stroke G2, the weight and displacement are pretty close to the 4 strokes--no major advantage. There are those who like the lower interval of maintenance.

If you run the 25 loaded for cruising, the 200 will serve you well. When our boat is light, we can get about 30 mph (statute), when loaded for a month cruising, we are looking at 22 or so, causing in the 18 vs being able to cruise in the mid 20's.
As the fuel and water burn off, then the boat begins to cruise easily in the low 20s with a Honda 150.

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Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
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skydog1



Joined: 24 Feb 2020
Posts: 18
City/Region: Friday harbor
State or Province: WA
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:31 am    Post subject: Looks like a little weight difference - Reply with quote

Pulled from internet so I'm just the messenger. May not be correct.

Yamaha 200HP 220 kg (487 lbs) - 221 kg (489 lb)

Evinrude From 390 to 426 (177 to 193) - Weight varies by shaft length and steering

2-stroke should be lighter. Maybe 50lbs. give or take. About what you said
thataway.

This is an interesting post. I never considered a 2-stroke before and would still probably go 4-stroke for lots of reasons but one big one being that's what all of you are running and the data supports that they are the way to go.

But.... it's just the gearhead in me. These new Evinrudes are showing up on a lot of new boats. Wonder if C-Dory has an RD dept. that would look into it? I imagine they are contracted with the manufacturers they are using. Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki. I believe they are more benificial to go fast boats. We'd just like to cruise and enjoy the scenery at lower RPM's with some on tap if need be etc...

Man... so curious, that would be a great test. Wonder if Evinrude would be interested in doing a test. This technology is so good now. Sorry forefathers,
but thank you for your trails and errors. We are the beneficiary:-)
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skydog1



Joined: 24 Feb 2020
Posts: 18
City/Region: Friday harbor
State or Province: WA
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:39 am    Post subject: Found a great video Reply with quote

Of course the boat is much different than a C-Dory but still very informative.

https://youtu.be/VwVlAClS9Bg
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curioustraveler



Joined: 26 Apr 2019
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City/Region: Annapolis
State or Province: MD
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting video, thanks. I'm quite ignorant about these things but would that initial torque of the Evinrude make much of a difference with a C-Dory? I'm not looking for speed but if the boat is weighted down would the Evinrude help plane faster? Or is that extra torque not necessary on a lower performance boat?
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Avidmagnum12



Joined: 23 Mar 2013
Posts: 668
City/Region: Ocklawaha
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2011
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Otter
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you figure the weight of an oil injected two stroke figure in the weight of the oil tank, pump and the all the oil. You may still be under the weight of 4 stroke but the gap shrinks. I’m not that familiar with the new Evinrude engines but I sure love my Yamaha.......
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skydog1



Joined: 24 Feb 2020
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City/Region: Friday harbor
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:42 am    Post subject: weights and torque Reply with quote

The evinrude weight numbers include oil that which is now internal. Very clean set up. 4-strokes have more torque off bottom but a 2-stroke has quicker acceleration. I don't see that as a plus or necessary on a C-Dory. I'm not in hurry. That video sure was interesting though. But keep in mind all at higher RPM, a little more noise and fuel consumption. I guess it's coming up with a pros and cons list of performance and costs to operate. The weight is nice but not that much of a difference, although 40-50 pounds it nothing to laugh at but certainly not enough to make us switch from 4 to 2.

I'm not sure how the Dory would react and I'm not suggesting one is better than the other. I just find the topic super interesting and now of course I want to know:-)

I like the simplicity fact of the 2-stroke. I'll have to research how often it needs piston, rings and bearings. Basically the cost and intervel of a top end. That basically all there is to a 2-stroke. Of course these modern one much more electronics to deal with but they all have that.

4-strokes are much more complicated thus will costs more $$$ to maintain.
If there is a major internal issue it's going to really costs you. But, that said,
4-strokes have proven they are excellent and reliable, can't argue that and I'm not.

That a 2-stroke isn't even an option probably is telling all by itself. When we get down to actually purchasing maybe I could contact Envinrude and see if they would be intereted in a test on a new boat..... free of charge of course unless it works well?

Again, not trying to start a war or anything of the of the sort. I love all this technology and they is so much knowledge on this board thought it could be thought provoking and informative.

Anyone learns anything else please post:-)

Cheers...
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san juanderer



Joined: 12 Aug 2014
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City/Region: Stanwood
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1990
C-Dory Model: 22 Angler
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having owned 3 E-tec v6 motors in the last 12 years, here is my brief thought.
I never had any issues and performance was good. The existing local dealer network is woefully inadequate, and no improvement has occurred. Lastly, I heard a comment from a Florida outboard shop that has stuck with me. " The E-tec is a computer". Meaning it's entire function is electronically based. A electrical problem can result in a burned cylinder, meaning the block is scrap. To the end user, this can mean heartbreak.
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skydog1



Joined: 24 Feb 2020
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City/Region: Friday harbor
State or Province: WA
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:41 pm    Post subject: Interesting.... good to know Reply with quote

That is good info. Thank you.
All engines are computer controlled today and with that comes issues as we all know from our cars etc.... my F250 has 2 computers onboard. Oh man.

I won't do anything but basically check oil, tire pressure and change wiper blades on our cars these days:-) And replace the battery ever 4 years. But I can drive down to the dealer at any point in time if need be. Not so easy with a boat.

Having a good service and parts network is essential. Our plans are to mostly stay in the San Jaun's, Canada and hopefully one day with lots of experience up the inside passage to Alaska. So getting service and parts would be mandatory.

There is no perfect engine, boat etc... sometimes you can get a lemon and sometimes "it" just happens, and will.

Nevertheless.... been a good discussion. I hope more will share their experiences.

That said... I really like the Suzuki. But.... still need to research the differences etc. Parts, service, warranty etc... I think they are all good. I worked an a test rider many, many years ago for Yamaha. They are a good company. Honda as well. On the motorcycle side of things Suzuki is really far behind in recent years.

I know nothing about any of these outboards but will learn. I like to be able to fix almost anything I own if needed and able. I'm a huge believer in carrying spare parts as well. Again, as long as it is something I can manage with my knowledge and tools on board. I don't won't to bring a roll away tool box onboard:-)

We are hoping to be on Friday Harbor when you guys have your get-together. Hope we are there, so want to check that out:-)
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localboy



Joined: 30 Sep 2006
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C-Dory Year: 2007
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Vessel Name: 'Au Kai (Ocean Traveler)
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We like our 2006 Suzuki DF 150. It has been flawless for a decade with just basic maintenance. I'd buy another Suzuki.

My buddy likes his 2018 Yamaha 250 w/ "fly by wire" controls. He'd buy another Yamaha. His last engine was a "modern" 2 stroke and the ECU took a dump.

I think both brands are comparable in quality, longevity etc. I'd be happy with either on the stern.

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TyBoo



Joined: 23 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also am pleased with the Suzuki. My 2017 DF200a has performed flawlessly for a little over 600 hours so far.

Suzuki and Yamaha both offer the higher HP motors (150-175-200) with the inline four cylinder configuration which is a good hundred pounds lighter than the V6 motors. Either brand is great so the biggest factor in choosing would be what your preferred dealer carries.

My dealer and others have told me that Suzuki really got their butt kicked with the internal corrosion problems several years back and have upped their game considerably to earn their spot on the list of favorites.

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ssobol



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Interesting.... good to know Reply with quote

skydog1 wrote:
....
All engines are computer controlled today and with that comes issues as we all know from our cars etc.... my F250 has 2 computers onboard. Oh man.
...


If your F250 was built in the last 10 years, it's got way more than 2 computers.
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