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bschell



Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 44
City/Region: tustin
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: bschell 2003 22 Cuiser
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:57 pm    Post subject: Yamaha vs Suzuki Reply with quote

I have a Yamaha 90 hp engine on the 22' the year of the boat and engine is 2003. I have had no problems with this engine over the 14 years, it has 2000 hours. My wife and I are having a new boat built to be ready in July, my builder just got news over Christmas from Yamaha due to retooling at the factory (and other excuses from the factory that seems a little odd) all engines over 175 hp are sold out world wide and will not be available to purchase till early 2019.

Question #1: Can anybody add information that is in the know?

Question #2: Like I posted in the subject and this would be for the newer engines 2017 and 2018. How do you think they stack up (compare). I am trying to research as much info as I can about the Suzuki's
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Aurelia



Joined: 20 Aug 2009
Posts: 2187
City/Region: Gig Harbor
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 19 Angler
Vessel Name: Ari
Photos: Aurelia
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which HP size are you looking to buy?
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 15321
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Thisaway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soundings For Trade only had an article on Dec 13 about the delay.

Also Yamaha is rumored to bring out a new model Jan 11 (rumored to be a SHO 90).

Outboards are available from dealers who have them in stock--but if it is a large builder they will get those motors substantially discounted from what a dealer would sell them for...and thus would not buy as a retail customer.

I have owned a number of Suzuki motors, and like all there have been a few issues. But all in all, the issues are no more than any other outboard manufacture. I currently own a Suzuki and it has run very well for a number of years.

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Thataway
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
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jennykatz



Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 1439
City/Region: naples
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: Jennykatz
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:41 am    Post subject: comparison yami vs Suzi Reply with quote

What hp are you looking at ? Why not look at Mercury also ? We went from a 2005 Yamaha 115 to a 2016 mercury 115 CT engine .The merc is quieter handles much better around the marina ( bigger prop) The Merc is a 2.1 Litre vs a 1.8 Litre also was a $1000 cheaper . As far as resale the Yamaha do a little better down here in Florida . There is also the dealership that you will be working with what brand do they sell? As far as corrosion from salt water It seems the Merc and Yamaha are better then the Suzuki or Honda's down here it SW Florida
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00 cd16 cruiser honda 40 sold 3/12
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DavidM



Joined: 24 Dec 2017
Posts: 12
City/Region: NW Connecticut
State or Province: CT
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I too am confused about what hp engine he is asking about. He says he is building a new boat to replace his older CD 22, and Yamaha engines above 175 hp are temporarily unavailable. So it is doubtful it is a new CD 22.

He posted this yesterday and hasn't answered the fundamental question- what size engine is he looking for? It would also be nice to know what boat he is having built,

David
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Wefings
Dealer


Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2038
City/Region: Panhandle
State or Province: FL
Photos: Cruise Ship #4
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yamaha has really screwed up and their brands [Skeeter,G3 and The powermatched Yam. only brands like Grady White] will get all the motors .
We sell Yamaha , Honda and Suzuki and Suzuki has become our # 1 motor as supply, warranty and pricing are all better than Yamaha . Incidences of problems are very low for all the motors we sell , but Yamaha has had their share lately .
There are more and more Suzuki dealers and the service network is getting better all the time .
Honda is pushing to get more "transoms" and is doing exclusive deals with a few brands including Rosborough. They are pumping R&D [moldmaking and new models ] money into boat builders that will partner exclusively . Yamaha has done that for years and is pretty strongarm about it .
I would look hard at Suzuki especially in the inline 150/175/200 .Its a great motor and we have had few issues .
Marc

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localboy



Joined: 30 Sep 2006
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City/Region: Lake Stevens via Honolulu
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: 'Au Kai (Ocean Traveler)
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To me the question is like "FORD" or "CHEVY". Laughing
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PaulNBriannaLynn



Joined: 26 Oct 2012
Posts: 451
City/Region: Kilkenny
State or Province: GA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: TBD
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll preface this by saying I'm a Honda guy. I trust the brand to get me home time and time again. They're just incredibly reliable 100% of the time on many different outboards I've ran.

Looking at all the brands right now, Suzuki is really ahead in terms of their warranty, dealer network and they are priced well below competitors. If I decided to not go Honda due to cost, it would be Suzuki.

After running a low hours 2009 Yamaha F225 on our Parker for a year and a half, I would not consider Yamaha. Bad relays and electrical gremlins on a low hour engine is unacceptable in my opinion. Certain things are not as well engineered (fuel filter/water sensor housing under cowl is a PITA for example).

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TyBoo



Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 4828
City/Region: Warrenton
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 1996
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruise Ship
Vessel Name: TyBoo
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It may not be a reliable indicator, but the so called guide boats down here are mostly 30' sleds with huge tiller steered outboards. There are probably close to a hundred of them around during the salmon season. By a long shot, the most prevalent motor on them is Yamaha, followed by Mercury. Honda is next, and then Suzuki.

The number one choice for choosing between the major brands is the dealer and the post sale service they can provide. My dealer of choice (Sportcraft Marina in Portland) does not carry Yamaha so that brand was not even considered although the observation with the guide boats would have made me strongly consider it if my dealer had them.

When I repowered last summer I went to the dealer planning to get a Honda but they convinced me that Suzuki was the best fit for the CD25. Comparing them side by side the Honda looks much more refined in construction than the Suzuki. The Honda has sleeker lines and more of the mechanical workings are concealed or blended into the appearance. The Honda looks like a Corvette engine whereas the Suzuki looks more like a lawnmower motor. I am hoping those differences are just cosmetic and do not say anything about the internal build quality.

I only have about 80 hours on my new Suzuki DF200 so I can't give a long term report on it, but I will say I like everything about it except the fact that the oil filter is behind a cover panel that has to be removed to change the filter, and I can live with that. The performance is amazing. The lower gearing lets it use a 20" pitch prop giving it a great hole shot plus more authority at slow speeds around the dock. The overall fuel economy on my heavy old boat with bottom paint is above 2.5 mpg all the time, and often above 3 mpg. The top speed is higher than I want to go - the CD25 gets a little squirrelly at 40 mph.

I'm pretty sure I am going to remain a Suzuki fan.

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1996 25' Cruise Ship
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DavidM



Joined: 24 Dec 2017
Posts: 12
City/Region: NW Connecticut
State or Province: CT
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snce we seem to have gone beyond just considering the two engines that the OP asked about, does anyone have any experience with the Evinrude E-Tec engine?

Thie E-Tec is a direct fuel injected two stroke engine where no oil is mixed with fuel. Lube oil is directly injected into the cylinders and bearings. This means several things:

Meets all EPA standards.
Has the low speed torque that we used to love with two stroke engines.
Does not have any valve train or large crankcase, so the engine is lighter.
Does require a large oil reservoir, but with enough capacity for 100+ hours.
No oil changes, so service interval is 300 hours.
Fuel economy is as good as any 4 stroke.

Any experience with these?

David
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Robert H. Wilkinson



Joined: 26 Jan 2011
Posts: 769
City/Region: Port Ryerse
State or Province: ON
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 22 Angler
Vessel Name: Romakeme IV
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DavidM wrote:
does anyone have any experience with the Evinrude E-Tec engine? David


If I was ordering a new O/B it would probably be an Evinrude. A good friend of mine who is a mechanic and owns a marine repair business swears by them.

Our Navy spec'd out their latest RHIB order with Evinrude power - something like 100 fewer moving parts. They normally want the best - so go figure.

Cbrat Jim Tidwell recently repowered his R246 with a 300hp Evinrude - he told me it "transformed the boat". Said it was almost half the weight of the twin 115 four strokes it replaced. A Cdory could benefit from that. As well a lot of Cbrats like to push the season and they can be winterized from the helm.

Regards, Rob

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Bboater



Joined: 10 Dec 2011
Posts: 6
City/Region: Renton
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SeaCup
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can comment on Etec engines. My current boat is a 2006 25 cdory with a 2006 200 HO. The HO stands for high output. Itís known as a big block(3.3 liter vs 2.8 L on the standard 200). The engine has almost run flawless in the 9 months Iíve had it. It really jumps out of the hole. Zero complaints about power. They claim it has 223 hp at the prop.

Bought the boat with 130 hrs and now it has about 285 hrs. The engine is a gas guzzler. Iíve been averaging 1.5 - 1.6 mpg. This is at cruise speeds 3500-4000 rpm, 15-20 mph. Last trip out was to port orchard from Des Moines marina, 45 mile round trip took 34 gallons of fuel (1.3 mpg) averaging about 18 mph

I have just posted a topic here to rent or borrow a trailer. Iím planning to re-power my boat with a Suzuki 200 in line 4cyl.

My research shows the G2 Etec to be very good, they claim the best on the market. Statistics say 40% improvements from Gen 1 Etecs. Yet, Iím going with Suzuki, they claim they are the best also. Iíve struggled with my last 115 Etec, current 200 Etec is awesome except for fuel burn. The XT-100 mixing oil is expensive also ($45 per gallon)
David at Auburn sports and marine says the best motor on the market is the one that is taken care of. He says that poor maintenance is the largest issue.

Brett
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Chester



Joined: 04 Sep 2006
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C-Dory Year: 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do a search on the Gen2 Etec and you will see many reports of excellent fuel mileage.
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jbdba01



Joined: 18 Nov 2014
Posts: 145

State or Province: FL
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMHO - all the engines are great now a days. Some have longer warranties, but to me it's all about where your local mechanic is located and how many are there.

For me it's a Yamaha/Merc guy that's closest. Been on the Yamaha band wagon since 2010.

I believe Suzuki has a 6 year extended warranty that all my buds are buying.

If repowering I would look at the additional cost of the cabling and gauges. Personally I would skip new gauges and get everything on the sonar/fishfinder, but that's me.
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Avidmagnum12



Joined: 23 Mar 2013
Posts: 316
City/Region: Ocklawaha
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C-Dory Year: 2011
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Otter
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brett
I have a 25 with a Yamaha 200 HPDI engine and it too is a gas guzzler at the speeds you mention. However if I run at 30 to 35 mph my fuel flow meter shows 2.4 to 2.6 mpg. No complaints about that. If I going to run slow for a long while I drop my 9.9 kicker in and run on that.

I guess I just canít figure out how Iíd save money by buying a new engine?😇

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2011 CD 25 "C-Otter" 07/2015 to present
2011 CD 25 "My Girl" 06/2015 renamed C-Otter
2004 CD 22 Commuter "Out2C" 03/10 to 06/15
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