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The future of salmon in Puget Sound
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rogerbum



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pandion wrote:
rogerbum wrote:
When most of the fish disappear in the Alaska and BC fisheries before they return, we aren't fishing as much (or at all)..

To what do you attribute that disappearance, Roger? Habitat? Ocean conditions?
Fishing. Specifically commercial fishing (native and non-native). The data that demonstrates this loss of returning fish is based on tags in hatchery fish recovered in Alaska and BC.
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Pandion



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rogerbum wrote:
Pandion wrote:
rogerbum wrote:
When most of the fish disappear in the Alaska and BC fisheries before they return, we aren't fishing as much (or at all)..

To what do you attribute that disappearance, Roger? Habitat? Ocean conditions?
Fishing. Specifically commercial fishing (native and non-native). The data that demonstrates this loss of returning fish is based on tags in hatchery fish recovered in Alaska and BC.


Just to be clear, Roger, you are talking about Washington state runs being interdicted in Alaska and B.C., correct?

... and if so, is this essentially a political problem?

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rogerbum



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pandion wrote:
rogerbum wrote:
Pandion wrote:
rogerbum wrote:
When most of the fish disappear in the Alaska and BC fisheries before they return, we aren't fishing as much (or at all)..

To what do you attribute that disappearance, Roger? Habitat? Ocean conditions?
Fishing. Specifically commercial fishing (native and non-native). The data that demonstrates this loss of returning fish is based on tags in hatchery fish recovered in Alaska and BC.


Just to be clear, Roger, you are talking about Washington state runs being interdicted in Alaska and B.C., correct?

... and if so, is this essentially a political problem?

Yes, WA state runs being interdicted before they return. That is a large part (but not the only part) of the problem.

ALL of the parts of the problem are ultimately political. Science can provide information on cause of problems and the likely effect of given policy changes but any policy changes will involve winners and losers.

Want better salmon habitat in rivers? You need to regulate land use around the rivers. That affects land owners. Also, you need other sources of energy than dams the limit passage. That affects rate payers. Also, you need to build roads and bridges and drainage systems differently. That affects tax payers.

Want more WA fish to return? You need to assure that WA fish are not caught in huge numbers PRIOR to their return. That affects BC and Alaska fishermen. You also need to agree to distributions of hatchery fish from each jurisdiction such that our hatchery fish have a fair shot at the food in the N Pacific and Bering Sea. That affects other states and countries.

Want more fish for recreational fisher people? Allow the commercial to catch less. That affects the jobs of the commercial fishing industry.

No matter what you do, it's a political choice and SOMEONE will lose SOMETHING.
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AstoriaDave



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terrific synopsis, rogerbum. Ain't no free lunch ... everybody gets squeezed in competition for a scarce resource ... to a greater or lesser extent. The crux is figuring out how to maximize the resource while managing all the intersecting variables that allow us to live reasonable lives.
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Hunkydory



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roger, yes excellent & I agree with all you wrote. I always look forward to reading & thinking about your comments & have great respect for your opinion, whether I end up agreeing or not.

Jay

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dotnmarty



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, now that you all admit and agree that it is fundamentally a political problem, That's the easy part. OK, so the resource needs to be "managed". How do you do that? Who will do that ? It's those politicians and bureaucrats that you denigrate that have to make the hard choices.
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localboy



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
No matter what you do, it's a political choice and SOMEONE will lose SOMETHING
.

Quote:
Frankly, I've had it with the right wing BS.


Hmmmm....

Me thinks thou dos't protest too much...

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dotnmarty



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

how do I say this in a "nice "way....

Frankly my dear I don't give a good crap what thou thinketh....
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rogerbum



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

localboy wrote:
Quote:
No matter what you do, it's a political choice and SOMEONE will lose SOMETHING
.

Quote:
Frankly, I've had it with the right wing BS.


Hmmmm....

Me thinks thou dos't protest too much...


Hmmmm.... me thinks thou dos't stir the pot too much.
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localboy



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dotnmarty wrote:
how do I say this in a "nice "way....

Frankly my dear I don't give a good crap what thou thinketh....


And there you have it...
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localboy



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="rogerbum]Hmmmm.... me thinks thou dos't stir the pot too much.[/quote]

And there you have it...
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hardee



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Political, Economical, Commercial, Ecological.

Yup, and the fix is going to require everyone to give up something. (That is hard to expect in today's society where everyone thinks they are "owed".)

Or Endowed.

Hug Love Hug Thumbs Up Thumbs Up

Harvey
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Discovery



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://wildfishconservancy.org/february-15th-prv-press-release/at_download/file

I haven't fished Puget Sound in a few years, but I do follow the press.

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thataway



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brent, I will post this in the thread about the Cypress Island escape, and the termination of the fishery.

I see this virus as a grave danger, and something that all of us who are against fish farming fear.

Thanks for bringing this up!

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hardee



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thataway wrote:
Brent, I will post this in the thread about the Cypress Island escape, and the termination of the fishery.

I see this virus as a grave danger, and something that all of us who are against fish farming fear.

Thanks for bringing this up!


Here is the link to that Cypress Island thread:

http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=26119&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Harvey
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