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rogerbum
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 5922 City/Region: Kenmore
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Meant to be
Photos: SeaDNA
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Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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nimrod wrote: | I stand by my claim. If you remove *all harvest*, by every single harvest method, location, time, gear commercial, recreational, subsistence and poaching *and* remove all hatchery influences in the watershed, the Stillaguamish River will not produce more than 1500 adult Chinook spawners on an average annual basis, regardless of ocean productivity. This is compared to an estimate of 50,000 average annual spawners pre-settlement.
jd |
I'm not disagreeing with you JD, but we don't fish on the carrying capacity of the streams but rather the returns. If the returns were to exceed the carrying capacity (typically due to hatchery enhancement), we'd be catching more fish. When most of the fish disappear in the Alaska and BC fisheries before they return, we aren't fishing as much (or at all).. _________________ Roger on Meant to be |
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DrewbirdII
Joined: 29 Sep 2012 Posts: 53 City/Region: fanny bay
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 1989
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Drewbird II
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Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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I cruised though Alaska last June and heard a lot of complaining about their chinook runs being shut down halfway through the season do to low returns? I hope it was only a bad year and not a sign of the times to come. There was a lot of complaining about the crab fishery as well, to many Sea Otters apparently. Jim |
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localboy
Joined: 30 Sep 2006 Posts: 4656 City/Region: Lake Stevens via Honolulu
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: 'Au Kai (Ocean Traveler)
Photos: 'AU KAI
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Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:58 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | on the other hand, too many of the folks who want the gov't to build walls on the borders also want to gut the EPA and the Dept. of the Interior and etc |
Huh? What?
Both are consistent. The EPA and Dept of the Interior et al, are merely two examples of huge bureaucratic and bloated federal govt entities. "The wall" could be and is regarded as a matter of national security, which IS something the Federal govt is ACTUALLY tasked with and responsible for, as opposed to say, the national poet.
Supporting un-fetted and illegal immigration while also demanding more Federal govt regulation screams of hypocrisy. Some people want more regulations...but just the ones they like and that benefit a particular political party.
Now back to salmon... _________________ "We can go over there...behind the 'little one'....."
Wife to her husband pointing @ us...from the bow of their 50-footer; Prideaux Haven 2013
Last edited by localboy on Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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localboy
Joined: 30 Sep 2006 Posts: 4656 City/Region: Lake Stevens via Honolulu
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: 'Au Kai (Ocean Traveler)
Photos: 'AU KAI
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Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | too many Sea Otters* |
Too many people.**
Too many sea lions*.
Too many seals*.
Not enough pristine spawning habitat***
Hmmmmm...
*Federally protected as "endangered" (see MMPA)
**See page 1 about illegal immigration and population growth
***See too many people
Again; hmmmmm.....
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dotnmarty
Joined: 03 Nov 2003 Posts: 4196 City/Region: Sammamish
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
Vessel Name: LIZZIE II
Photos: Lizzie
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Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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Marc I doubt anyone wants unfettered immigration and open borders. I know I'm wasting my time trying to convince you otherwise, but what the heck , I already have been to the Y today and it's raining.... _________________ MartyP
"...we're all in the same boat..." |
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Spike
Joined: 21 Oct 2006 Posts: 572 City/Region: Kent
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Bootleg Hooch
Photos: Bootleg Hooch
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Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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Save a salmon, deport a Mexican. Maybe that can be the new slogan for building the wall. Geeze _________________ Chuck
Bootleg Hooch |
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Hunkydory
Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 2657 City/Region: Cokeville, Wyoming
State or Province: WY
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Hunkydory
Photos: Hunkydory-Jay-and-Jolee
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Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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Since 1972, the US population has increased 115 million people or 55% with roughly 12.5 million of those, illegals & none of that increase is due to birth rate. That equals the present population of our 5 most populated states & now the most populated state & many of the large cities are sanctuary areas for illegals. This is not a straight left/right issue as one party predominantly wants the cheap labor & the other the power from their votes, which has lead to what has become unfettered immigration if not in strict definition at least in reality of numbers. You are right Marty in that the majority of the people are against it, but the people who have been in power & many who still are have & continue to allow it to go on. This is not a racist issue, though many try to make it so. My oldest granddaughter is half Mexican & her Mexican family who are legal immigrants or their decendents, know their present wages & jobs are at risk from the illegals or large numbers of allowed legal immigrants, Mexican or not. It’s not just the environment being put at risk. _________________ Jay and Jolee 2000 22 CD cruiser Hunkydory
I will not waste my days in trying to prolong them------Jack London
https://share.delorme.com/JuliusByers |
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dotnmarty
Joined: 03 Nov 2003 Posts: 4196 City/Region: Sammamish
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
Vessel Name: LIZZIE II
Photos: Lizzie
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Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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Well Jay, you're right .One party wants cheap labor. That's why they always vote against raising the minimum wage and send jobs overseas and their profits to the Cayman Islands. Frankly, I've had it with the right wing BS. As one of my friends said recently, "Don't get too discouraged. We spent more than two centuries building a great nation, and even a very stable genius probably needs a couple of years to complete its ruin." |
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Spike
Joined: 21 Oct 2006 Posts: 572 City/Region: Kent
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Bootleg Hooch
Photos: Bootleg Hooch
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Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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Marty
Ask your friend if he would mind my borrowing his quote? Love it. |
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B~C
Joined: 31 Oct 2003 Posts: 2861 City/Region: Bend
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 1999
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Blue~C
Photos: Blue~C
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Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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Damn this thread went to crap. If I read the article right, the problem is habitat and the cure is using actual science instead of politics to manage the fishery.
I would like to suggest that folks that turned this in to a political pissing match go stand in the corner for 10 minutes....we get enough of that from other sources _________________ Ken
1999 22' boaterhome |
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localboy
Joined: 30 Sep 2006 Posts: 4656 City/Region: Lake Stevens via Honolulu
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: 'Au Kai (Ocean Traveler)
Photos: 'AU KAI
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Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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Jay's and my (and other's) argument is that you can't have it BOTH ways. Jay presented FACTS. JD presented FACTS. Others presented FEELINGS. |
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Brewkid
Joined: 14 Apr 2015 Posts: 137 City/Region: Whidbey Is
State or Province: WA
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C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SCALLYWAG
Photos: Scallywag
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Brewkid
Joined: 14 Apr 2015 Posts: 137 City/Region: Whidbey Is
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SCALLYWAG
Photos: Scallywag
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Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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I received a reply with the phone number and pin within 8 minutes of sending the e-mail. Sorry, I can't share the number or pin. Here's the response I got.
"Please don’t share this with others just direct them to me since I have a limited number of lines. If you share the call number it may mean that you are not able to access the line. The call will be recorded and made available on our website at the conclusion."
Should be an interesting call...
John
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Pandion
Joined: 02 Oct 2013 Posts: 274 City/Region: Kenmore
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Osprey
Photos: Osprey
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Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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rogerbum wrote: | When most of the fish disappear in the Alaska and BC fisheries before they return, we aren't fishing as much (or at all).. |
To what do you attribute that disappearance, Roger? Habitat? Ocean conditions? _________________
Andy Ryan
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Catman
Joined: 30 Oct 2003 Posts: 1526 City/Region: Seattle
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2017
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: Songbird (Bambina, 16')
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Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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I think this is a lively and informative conversation, on a subject we feel deeply about. I really appreciate all that you writers have contributed, as there's much I didn't know. I also have long felt that it should be OK to disagree with one another, even strongly, without tip-towing or avoiding altogether subjects that might agitate. We've always shown that we're all friends here, and emotionally mature enough to restrain our fury when some guy says something that fries our tush. Yeah, the left and the right are going to disagree, but for 17 years we've done a damn fine job of following the administrators directive "Just be nice". |
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