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The future of salmon in Puget Sound
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localboy



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:40 am    Post subject: The future of salmon in Puget Sound Reply with quote

https://tidalexchange.com/2018/01/04/wdfw-gives-up-puget-sound-fishing-for-nothing/
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nimrod



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well-written article, and all true.

Full disclosure - I was the Stillaguamish Tribal Fisheries Mgmt Biologist for 30 years.

We had a saying in my office that succinctly described the problem in two words. It comes from the movie "Soylent Green".

"It's people!"

jd
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localboy



Joined: 30 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JD, you beat me to it. I was gonna contact you once I'm home from work...I figured if anyone had any insight, it'd be YOU.

I read it and realized the future looks pretty bleak. I'm not a hard-core salmon fisher, but my brother is, as are numerous buddies. I think the thing that is really interesting is this all appears to be "agreed to" behind closed doors.

Happy Holidays...
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nimrod



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bottom line of the article is that habitat limits fish production. Everywhere. The efforts of those who are pissed off because of fishing closures should be directed at those officials who are responsible for allowing continued habitat degradation. Politics always trumps biology. Always. Unfortunately, fish don't vote. So until politicians hear from their constituents that fish habitat loss is important, they won't care, and things won't change.

jd
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Spike



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And the gutting of the EPA continues..............
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Hunkydory



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My not so cheery winter thoughts for today. Yes, it’s the people as in numbers of people. When I was a youngster in the early 1960’s few of these problems were evident at least in the West, the US had around 180,000,000 people now 325,000,000. Yet our birth rates are now at a historic low. To many of the folk, who are active in wanting to solve our environmental problems are the same ones who support the politicians who proscribe to semi or completely open borders wanting cheap labor for both small & large business & votes to keep them in power. The example here of the fish is a microcosm of our country & then of the world. All that is being done & most likely will be done to address these problems are like the little boys finger in the Dutch dike, until the root problem of to many people for the environment to support is addressed. We are a long ways down the road from the days when small tribes lived along the river & overfishing was not a concern, much like the plains Indians & buffalo hunting. In the long run, the Stillaguamish chinook are doomed much like the buffalo were. Allowing even more fishing could make their demise quick or working on habitat slow, but the fish like the buffalo are doomed with the continued drastic increase in human population. I see a even more reduced will in this increased population to make the changes necessary for a positive outcome for the fish & intern, eventually for us.

Jay

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oldguy83



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jay you are so right.
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Sea Wolf



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jay-

Great insight and concisely written!

And sadly true.........

Joe. Disgust

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localboy



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I look at Kalifornia and see what the future holds, if things don't change. Jay, your evaluation is spot on.

My in-laws used to live on the Stilly, outside Granite Falls. Their property was the river bank, literally. They followed all the enviro/building rules/codes. After yrs on the river they sold. They were flooded more than a few times, once losing a motor home. Never once did I see any fish in that stretch, even during spawning season.
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dotnmarty



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well Jay, you're right. As Peanuts said, "we have met the enemy and it is us..."
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nimrod



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The South Fork Stillaguamish is an interesting case study in salmon habitat. Downstream of Granite Falls the river is nearly barren of fish and there is virtually no habitat that is suitable for salmon. Snohomish County permits development of riverfront property and most of it is, below the falls. Upstream of the falls there's an entirely different story. There is little development of riverfront property due both to accessibility and USFS ownership. You'd be hard-pressed to find more beautiful salmon habitat than upstream of the falls. Unfortunately, few salmon or steelhead make it above the falls because it's a nearly impassable barrier. Some do though. I've personally seen both steelhead and Chinook above the falls. But they number in the 10's, not nearly enough to be a self-sustaining population.

jd
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smckean (Tosca)



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't there a fish ladder at Granite Falls (the river falls)?
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Marco Flamingo



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nimrod wrote:

"It's people!"

jd


Washington is one of the fastest growing states. And the new tax bill doubles the child tax credit? Who decided that we need more children and that people who don't have children should subsidize those who have lots? Shouldn't there at least be a numeric limit? When will people finally figure out that what we need is a tax deduction for people not having children? 9 billion? 11 billion?

I always voted for property tax increases for schools. My theory was that we needed smarter children. That hasn't worked out. I voted against my first one last year. I have a new theory. There is only so much intelligence in the world. We are now dividing the pie up in very thin slices.

Mark
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nimrod



Joined: 14 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, there is a fish ladder. But it was poorly engineered and fills up with debris most years. As a result it's a maintenance nightmare and WDFW doesn't have the staffing or funds to keep up with it.

My point was that there is a direct correlation between fish habitat quality and riparian land-use. Alaska is another example. Abundant Alaskan wild salmon production is a result of the pristine quality of the habitat there.
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Hunkydory



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marco Flamingo wrote:
nimrod wrote:

"It's people!"

jd


Washington is one of the fastest growing states. And the new tax bill doubles the child tax credit? Who decided that we need more children and that people who don't have children should subsidize those who have lots? Shouldn't there at least be a numeric limit? When will people finally figure out that what we need is a tax deduction for people not having children? 9 billion? 11 billion?

I always voted for property tax increases for schools. My theory was that we needed smarter children. That hasn't worked out. I voted against my first one last year. I have a new theory. There is only so much intelligence in the world. We are now dividing the pie up in very thin slices.

Mark

Your theory on intelligence & dividing had JoLee & I laughing.

My thought on the 1st part are thus; In the US, as of 1972 our replacement birth rate has not increased our population.

http://www.susps.org/overview/immigration.html

Still, the people, who are having most of the children are the ones, who can afford them the least. The world population has increased to over 7 billion & as much as our country is subject to degradation here & abroad, it is still a wonderland & magnet of opportunity to enough of those 7 billion people to turn this country into what they are justifiably trying to escape. So our own more recent huge population increase is not due to birth rates, but rather the huge increase in both legal & illegal immigration & to “give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breath free” not apropos to our present state.

Jay
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