The C-Brats Forum Index
HomeForumsMy TopicsCalendarEvent SignupsMemberlistOur C-DorysThe Brat MapPhotos

Atlin Lake, BC June 2017
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The C-Brats Forum Index -> Grand Adventures
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Hunkydory



Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2652
City/Region: Cokeville, Wyoming
State or Province: WY
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Hunkydory
Photos: Hunkydory-Jay-and-Jolee
PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peter & Judy, We cruised our C-Dory to the Khutzeymateen Grizzly Bear Preserve in 2004 on our way to SE Alaska from Prince Rupert in 2004. We saw several bears & one very exceptional one there. I have used flares & hand held pencil bangers on very close bears. Also, most always carry bear spray since it became available & all are better then nothing, but in areas, they are allowed, nothing makes me feel more comfortable when the winds blowing & the brush thick then my 12 gauge shotgun loaded with all magnum slugs. In more open country the combination of what the biologist used might be ok, but in a close surprise encounter bear spray & the shotgun is worth there weight to me. In SE Alaska walking about where the bears are much more numerous then people we both carry bear spray & I generally bangers & the shotgun too. I’m 69 & closing in on 70 & have also spent a lot of my life in bear country with much of it without any defense other then learned personal experience interacting with bears & reading information from others who had more experience, but being as the outcome of a bear encounter, no matter how bear knowledgeable one is can turn out so extremely bad, I feel much better with the shotgun as a last resort. I certainly don’t want to have kill one, especially with then having to explain why, but I do enjoy walking about & observing them in their territory. So far, I’ve been able to back off myself or out bluff bears in close encounters, except for one instance in SE Alaska in 2007 when a bear was making for a camp of kayakers on the outside Alaska gulf waters of Chichagof Island. Those two couples, that I stopped a bear encounter from had kayaked several years in bear country in SE Alaska without a shotgun, but after that experience they said never again. That trip & encounter is in the Grand Adventure Forum here. http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=6392

I got a kick out of AJF’s posted link to what Whitehorse is attempting on bear problems. Seems they’re going full tilt at re inventing the wheel with excellent examples as you wrote in Banff & Canmore & I imagine many others too, that would be much simpler & better to implement or get advice from folks like AJF who have been successfully dealing with the bears for years. Attitudes of folk in small towns like Atlin will generally differ from larger population areas. I remember in 2001 when we were in a coffee shop there & talking with locals, who told us about how the wolves had come into town the previous winter & killed 12 of their dogs. Needless to say sympathy for the wolves & bears ran on the short side. This quote from the comment section on AJF’s link I found entertaining.

“The CoW Sustainability Department and their mandated bear-friendly compost bins shown in the picture are very much to blame for bears being killed. It can be two weeks before food scraps in the green bin are picked up. There were far fewer bears killed before they required residents to use bear friendly garbage containers. People used to use steel containers with tight fitting lids that were difficult for bears to open. What's even worse is that when it came time to order more containers from a southern supplier, they went with the same bear-friendly design. None of this is surprising since the much vaunted CoW Sustainability Department is staffed by young inexperienced people from outside, not older Yukoners who know how to deal with bears. These greenwashed posers are not really environmentalists at all.
The killing will continue, because after all, it IS sustainable as long as bears keep breeding more.”

I think when living with bears active in the neighborhood it’s much like having all the humans around too. Most all conflict can be avoided, but there’s always the rare chance with people & bears that it can’t be avoided & that’s when I personally will go into defense mode “within the law” with all means available. With others, opinions will vary.

Jay

_________________
Jay and Jolee 2000 22 CD cruiser Hunkydory
I will not waste my days in trying to prolong them------Jack London
https://share.delorme.com/JuliusByers
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Hunkydory



Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2652
City/Region: Cokeville, Wyoming
State or Province: WY
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Hunkydory
Photos: Hunkydory-Jay-and-Jolee
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This photo was taken in 2001, off 2nd narrows on Atlin Lake. We developed a air leak in the RIB & were doing the repair job here. The motor was a 18 hp 4 stroke & even this heavily loaded could cruise at 12 mph. We carried 17 gal of gas & had a range of near 200 miles. We didn’t do float plans with RCMP & didn’t have any means of contacting anyone if emergency arose, but did carry tent, & food supplies & other gear to last comfortably for at least 2 weeks. It was a fantastic way to explore Atlin Lake & many other lakes & rivers in remote NW Canada & Alaska. The following year when we went much further north & to even more remote places, I purchased a Sat Phone.

During our times on Altlin Lake the water level was higher then Peter & Judy described & the aerial photos they posted shown. In RIB or C-Dory we had no trouble going through any of the narrows & no close calls with bottom anywhere on the lake. I can’t say the same about Tagish or Teslin Lakes.

Jay
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Saxe Point



Joined: 24 Jan 2012
Posts: 77
City/Region: Sooke
State or Province: BC
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AJF wrote:
It was sad year for the bear population in the Yukon and northern BC. 63 bears were put down because of wildlife/human conflict. In many cases because of human habituation of the bear or just plain human stupidity. Living in the north and in an area where there is a lot of bears around our homestead, I know you can avoid a lot of the these conflicts if you take the time to learn best practices and use some common sense. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/yukon-bears-killed-human-conflict-2017-1.4424999


Same problem wherever there are bears:

http://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/conservation-officers-kill-bear-in-sooke-1.21277677

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bear-sightings-surge-in-vancouver-island-communities-1.4205504
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20779
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the subject of bears, I suggest that any voyagers to AK visit Pack Creek Admiralty Island. A good history of this unique bear community is Here. A permit is necessary: this is a site for the information on permits.

Stan Price lived with the bears for 33 years--the bears were part of his family. Others who attempted to live with bears have not always had the same safe outcome.

I also have had multiple bear encounters: both black and brown. Generally I do carry a gun when in the wilderness for my own safety and survival. I had my .44 mag shipped to a federal firearms license holder in Ketchikan AK. A 12 Gauge shot gun is better, but since we had two Labrador retrievers, I heeded my hands free--and the gun was in a high cross draw holster. We both carried large canisters of bear spray--and never had the need to use either in many encounters. But there is that rogue and very rare circumstance where a bear does attack--and as others have written, you need to know the language of the bears, and how to react. We have been feet from a brown bear--by accident--in heavy growth--the bear continued on his way, and we on ours. I was pawed and sniffed by a curious black bear ( middle of the night) in the far back country in the Sierra when solo back packing--I held my breath and did not move a muscle. Mr bear moved on--and I made a big fire and stayed up the rest of the night! But we had been in Port Protection AK only a couple of days after a resident had been killed not too far from town. Everyone was armed and very much on edge. Apparently the fatality was caught with pants down, and gun/bear spray not handy. It would be very unusual for a bear to attack in those circumstances...but some extenuating circumstance? Same for bear #141 who killed Tim Treadwell and Amie Huguenard (Katmai National Park). But many mistakes made there which might have been a factor: Brief analysis here.

Certainly any bear is to be respected, and any who venture into their domain need to know about bear habits, and what precautions for the person's own safety. However the presence of bears should not be a detriment to enjoying AK or any remote area. (Be very aware of gun laws in Canada).

_________________
Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 12632
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the reasons I have been going up to the remote portions of the Broughtons and N Vancouver Island is to see the bears. I have seen both black and brown, but I tend to not go to shore looking for them. I much prefer to watch from the water, and have been within 20 yards from the animals, but there is always at least 2/3 the distance between me and the water's edge. That also depends on the steepness of the shoreline. Those big fuzzys can cover a fair amount of ground in a big hurry when they want, but they don't swim so fast. Since I don't have big fat long lenses, I need to be relatively close, but again, I want "must swim" water depth between me and Fuzzy.

Since I am single handing I tend to be extra careful, try to stay down wind if possible, and move slowly even on the boat. I carry a small canned air horn when off the boat, and Canadian Bear spray because I don't want the hassle of taking it across the boarder.

Harvey
SleepyCMoon


_________________
Though in our sleep we are not conscious of our activity or surroundings, we should not, in our wakefulness, be unconscious of our sleep.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hunkydory



Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2652
City/Region: Cokeville, Wyoming
State or Province: WY
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Hunkydory
Photos: Hunkydory-Jay-and-Jolee
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harvey, we usually have 3 cans of US potency bear spray with us & still have never been hassled about it on the border crossings. We have been asked if we have bear spray & if has a specific for bear use on the can, but not even to show it or asked what it’s potency is, but I can see why you purchase after the crossing as there is a chance it could be a hassle.

Jay
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 4523
City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So all this talk about Bear, I do hope to see some when I get to Alaska. However, with no plans to do any real hiking other than in communities, and just staying on the boat, has anyone ever had a bear try to board their boat? I do remember once in the Apostle Islands a small Black Bear coming out on the dock, but never approached our or the other boat that was there with us. I do plan to carry my flare gun with me if I do decide to walk along any remote shore areas, and sounds like perhaps a can of bear repellent might be a good idea to have also.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20779
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We met a salmon fisherman, who had to "fend off" a brown bear with boat hooks and oars. He had not cleaned the grill after cooking a salmon. The bears swim better than we do! We have regularly seen bears in the water. The bear can swim pretty well. Polar bears can swim at 6.2 miles an hour. I suspect the brown bears are a bit slower, but would not want to find out.

We have been quite close to many animals in the inflatable--especially drifting or quietly paddling. We watched a lone wolf for over 30 minutes from about 50 feet off shore one evening. Probably smelled our dogs. Had coyotes come within 50 feet of the boat when stern to the beach. See fox up close.

Read Jay's posts on the Kayak campers and swimming bears.

Just like your home or camp site--keep items which a bear might want off of the stern, grills, etc. Don't leave tempting garbage available.

We have always carried "Counter Assault" bear spray. The web site says it may be taken into Canada for personal use against bears, cannot be sold or left there and must return to the US. The difference is 2% Capsaicin and other related capsaicinoids is required in the US and only 1% capsaicin is allowed, in Canada.

We have never had our spray inspected, even though we have been asked on several occasions.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 4523
City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh great, now I'll worry about using my open Kayak to explore a bit or taxi to shore.... Shocked So now I'll need to find outerwear that deflects bears. lol. No, I intend on keeping my distance. But suppose it's another item I'll need to research a bit about in preparation for a C-Dory Alaskan Adventure. Then again, some of it probably comes down to common sense.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 12632
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Colby, A lot of it comes down to common sense. For Sure. I have seen a black bear in the water, swimming one time. I was doing slow cruise, upper MacKinzie Inlet IIRC, and thought it was a stump in the water, or maybe a beaver. Recognized it at about 30 yards, and backed off slowly. Not sure it even looked at me, but I waited and watched as it finished the crossing of about 50 yards. It was very early in the morning and not good enough light for decent pix but was fun to watch.

I carry the small air horn as it makes plenty of screech and is effective from a much longer distance than bear spray. I have never used either the horn or spray.

As to Customs, crossing is just easier when I can say no to that list of stuff they ask if I am carrying: alcohol, tobacco, firearms, fresh fruit of veggies, over $10,000 cash, or ......

Harvey
SleepyC Moon

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Saxe Point



Joined: 24 Jan 2012
Posts: 77
City/Region: Sooke
State or Province: BC
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

colbysmith wrote:
So all this talk about Bear, I do hope to see some when I get to Alaska. However, with no plans to do any real hiking other than in communities, and just staying on the boat, has anyone ever had a bear try to board their boat? I do remember once in the Apostle Islands a small Black Bear coming out on the dock, but never approached our or the other boat that was there with us. I do plan to carry my flare gun with me if I do decide to walk along any remote shore areas, and sounds like perhaps a can of bear repellent might be a good idea to have also.


They can be determined enough to swim, climb a dock and get into a boat!

http://www.fishingportrenfrew.ca/2008/09/sept-9-port-renfrew-bear-attack-heroic_10.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 12632
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Colby, Here is a pretty decent video on bear safety. Covers both brown and black bears and recognizing their activity patterns.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQkoGhJa77M

Harvey
SleepyC Moon

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20779
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Understanding aggressive behavior--false charges and bluff's vs predicator and a true charge are important. Keeping cool, composed and using a low but firm voice. Not showing fear is important. But not being aggressive is equally as important.

A lot of bear material is written for the suburban areas, where there are "nuisance bears". The wild Grizzly is a different critter.

Several sites are good: Here. and Bear Smart--go to behavior also. National Geographic on bears. Outward bound.

Understanding Bear behavior

We always called out "Bear Bear, Where is the Bear" Several times before we landing our RIB. It was surprising how many times there was a bear in the area we had not spotted, and it rose up on legs to see better what was making the noise.

Always carry bear spray and know how to use it. Air a little high, so the pepper material gets in the eyes and nose. If you don't carry a gun (Shotgun probably best with magnum slugs, .338 WM, .375 H & H, 45/70 Govt. rifle or large cal hot load, solid cast bullet handgun plus be an accomplished shooter) but as a last ditch, then carry a good sharp fixed blade knife, and if for some unforeseen reason the playing dead doesn't work--at least you have some weapon to cut the throat or eyes....not that any of this is easy to do. The old saying if you shoot the bear, it better have powder burns on the entry wound, and pepper spray all over its face!

Although we tend to think that the black bear is less of a risk, because they scare easily (usually), I have seen several several persons who were mauled in the back country by black bears.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Peter & Judy



Joined: 03 Dec 2014
Posts: 546
City/Region: Olds
State or Province: AB
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Mistaya
Photos: Mistaya
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a bear proof suit that might work, but I would try contacting the manufacturer to see if they have a Mustang version with a built in flotation vest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MEUOW7cERI

Personally, I always wear easy to wash underwear when travelling in bear country. I think it might be a better investment than a bear proof suit.

_________________
Peter & Judy Haase
Buffalo Horn Ranch

HMCB Mistaya
"Mistaya" (Grizzly Bear in Cree)
HMCB (Her Majesties Cute Boat)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 4523
City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of good info on bears. Believe it or not, I think I'm actually going to leave bear attack in the same risk category that I'm slowly learning to put a sinking boat in. (Actually, I'm probably less concerned with bears than sinking...as I spend a lot more time on the water than hiking in bear country...) I know it happens, but I think common sense and respecting my environment will lead the way. But after all the comments and experience from others, I will very likely also have Bear Spray along. Easy enough and small enough to provision with on a C-Dory. Nothing against guns, but I'm not interested in dealing with the gun laws between countries or feel the need to carry one. And knowing my past experience with target practice, I'd do just as well with a bear banger. Rolling Eyes Colby
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The C-Brats Forum Index -> Grand Adventures All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
     Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum



Page generation time: 0.12s (PHP: 84% - SQL: 16%) - SQL queries: 33 - GZIP disabled - Debug on