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thataway

Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20814
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:17 pm Post subject:

Review of the rules of the Road-

Quote:

Rule 15 - Crossing Situation Return

(a) When two power-driven vessels are crossing so as to involve risk of collision, the vessel which has the other on her own starboard side shall keep out of the way and shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, avoid crossing ahead of the other vessel.

In this case the ferry had Nap-Tyme on her starboard side. thus was give way vessel

Quote:

Rule 16 - Action by Give-way Vessel

Every vessel which is directed to keep out of the way of another vessel shall, so far as possible, take early and substantial action to keep well clear.

Ferry did not take adequate "early and substantial action"

Quote:

Rule 17- Action by Stand-on Vessel

(a)(i) Where one of two vessels is to keep out of the way, the other shall keep her course and speed.

(ii) The latter vessel may, however, take action to avoid collision by her maneuver alone, as soon as it becomes apparent to her that the vessel required to keep out of the way is not taking appropriate action in compliance with these Rules.

(b) When, from any cause, the vessel required to keep her course and speed finds herself so close that collision cannot be avoided by the action of the give-way vessel alone, she shall take such action as will best aid to avoid collision.

(c) A power-driven vessel which takes action in a crossing situation in accordance with Rule 17(a)(ii) to avoid collision with another power-driven vessel shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, not alter course to port for a vessel on her own port side.

(d) This Rule does not relieve the give-way vessel of her obligation to keep out of the way.

Nap-Tyme, because of her failure to stand watch and use all appropriate means, caused a collision in violation of the above.

Quote:

Rule 18 - Responsibilities Between Vessels

Except where Rules 9, 10, and 13 otherwise require:

(a) A power-driven vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:

(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;
(iii) a vessel engaged in fishing;
(iv) a sailing vessel.

Although the ferry is restricted by her size and type, if she had taken action sooner, the collision could have been avoided

Quote:

Rule 7 - Risk of Collision

(a) Every vessel shall use all available means appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and conditions to determine if risk of collision exists. If there is any doubt such risk shall be deemed to exist.

(b) Proper use shall be made of radar equipment if fitted and operational, including long-range scanning to obtain early warning of risk of collision and radar plotting or equivalent systematic observation of detected objects.

(c) Assumptions shall not be made on the basis of scanty information, especially scanty radar information.

(d) In determining if risk of collision exists the following considerations shall be among those taken into account:

(i) Such risk shall be deemed to exist if the compass bearing of an approaching vessel does not appreciably change.
(ii) Such risk may sometimes exist even when an appreciable bearing change is evident, particularly when approaching a very large vessel or a tow or when approaching a vessel at close range.

Both vessels were at fault here.

Quote:

Rule 8 - Action to Avoid Collision

(a) Any action taken to avoid collision shall be taken in accordance with Rules 4-19 and shall if the circumstances of the case admit, be positive, made in ample time and with due regard to the observance of good seamanship.

(b) Any alteration of course and/or speed to avoid collision shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, be large enough to be readily apparent to another vessel observing visually or by radar; a succession of small alterations of course and/or speed should be avoided.

(c) If there is sufficient sea room, alteration of course alone may be the most effective action to avoid a close-quarters situation provided that it is made in good time, is substantial and does not result in another close-quarters situation.

(d) Action taken to avoid collision with another vessel shall be such as to result in passing at a safe distance. The effectiveness of the action shall be carefully checked until the other vessel is finally past and clear.

(e) If necessary to avoid collision or allow more time to assess the situation, a vessel may slacken her speed or take all way off by stopping or reversing her means of propulsion.

(f)(i) A vessel which, by any of these Rules, is required not to impede the passage or safe passage of another vessel shall, when required by the circumstances of the case, take early action to allow sufficient sea room for the safe passage of the other vessel.

(ii) A vessel required not to impede the passage or safe passage of another vessel is not relieved of this obligation if approaching the other vessel so as to involve risk of collision and shall, when taking action, have full regard to the action which may be required by Rules 4-19.

(iii) A vessel, the passage of which is not to be impeded remains fully obliged to comply with Rules 4-19 when the two vessels are approaching one another so as to involve risk of collision.

Again both vessels had responsibility here.

There is rarely a situation with a collision where only one vessel is fully at fault.
_________________
Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL

beermanPDX

Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Posts: 261
City/Region: Portland
State or Province: OR
Photos: Jean Marie

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:14 pm Post subject:

thataway wrote:

Quote:

Although the ferry is restricted by her size and type, if she had taken action sooner, the collision could have been avoided

While it doesn't alter your point (which I agree with), I don't believe the ferry can be considered a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver. Size doesn't come in to play in that classification. What I was taught is that a RAM (Restricted in Ability to Maneuver) vessel is defined that way "due to the nature of her work." Additionally, I don't believe any WA state ferrys display any RAM lights / day shapes.

Definition from Colregs:

Rule 3

The term "vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver" means a vessel which from the nature of her work is restricted in her ability to maneuver as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel. The term [Int] "vessels restricted in their ability to maneuver" shall [Int] include but not be limited to:
-A vessel engaged in laying, servicing, or picking up a navigational mark, -submarine cable or pipeline;
-A vessel engaged in dredging, surveying or underwater operations;
-A vessel engaged in replenishment or transferring persons, provisions or cargo while underway;
-A vessel engaged in the launching or recovery of aircraft;
-A vessel engaged in mine clearance operations;
-A vessel engaged in a towing operation such as severely restricts the towing vessel and her tow in their ability to deviate from their course.
_________________
Cheers Beer

Rob
2008 25 Cruiser - Sold
2002 Nordic Tug 32/4 - Sold
1989 40 Tollycraft Sport Sedan

thataway

Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20814
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:45 pm Post subject:

Rob, Absolutely correct.

Marco Flamingo

Joined: 09 Jul 2015
Posts: 1155
City/Region: Seattle
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Limpet
Photos: Limpet

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:40 pm Post subject:

I thought that a ferry in the ferry lane and a ship in a shipping lane had some kind of priority independent of who is to starboard. I'm going to keep pretending that is the rule even if it isn't true. Speaking of not true, the ship yard that did the repair on Nap Tyme also modified the helm seat. It is now also a head. Problem solved. Mark

starcrafttom

Joined: 07 Nov 2003
Posts: 7882
City/Region: marysville
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1984
C-Dory Model: 27 Cruiser
Vessel Name: to be decided later
Photos: Susan E

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:06 pm Post subject:

Where is my like button for Mark.?? _________________ Thomas J Elliott http://tomsfishinggear.blogspot.com/

localboy

Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 4656
City/Region: Lake Stevens via Honolulu
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: 'Au Kai (Ocean Traveler)
Photos: 'AU KAI

Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:12 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Bigus goes firstus...

I taught this rule to The Admiral, who had zero boating experience prior to our being C Dory owners. And told her to always make sure any change of course is obvious, not subtle, to those boats you encounter. It has worked well since 2009 when we purchased our 25.
_________________
"We can go over there...behind the 'little one'....."
Wife to her husband pointing @ us...from the bow of their 50-footer; Prideaux Haven 2013

ken35216

Joined: 12 Mar 2013
Posts: 569
City/Region: Destin, Florida
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2017
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Lady Onyx
Photos: ken35216

Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:47 pm Post subject:

Marco Flamingo wrote:

I thought that a ferry in the ferry lane and a ship in a shipping lane had some kind of priority independent of who is to starboard. I'm going to keep pretending that is the rule even if it isn't true.

Mark

I live by that rule too! While on my boat I give way to commercial ships/traffic and while I'm in my land vehicles I try to give way to trains as well as big trucks on the highway. If you crash with any of these it does not matter who is at fault as you will lose.
_________________
2007 25 Cruiser 150 Suzuki (2013-2016)

2017 25 Cruiser 200 Yamaha (2017-present)

Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:10 pm Post subject:

ken35216 wrote:

...while I'm in my land vehicles I try to give way to trains as well as big trucks on the highway. If you crash with any of these it does not matter who is at fault as you will lose.

In law enforcement it's called "The Lug Nut Rule". He who has the most lug nuts wins. In over 25 yrs I have not seen it proven false, ever.

dotnmarty

Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 4196
City/Region: Sammamish
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
Vessel Name: LIZZIE II
Photos: Lizzie

Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:10 pm Post subject:

“Whether the stone hits the pitcher or the pitcher hits the stone it’s going to be bad for the pitcher.”, Sancho Panza in 'Don Quixote de la Mancha' _________________ MartyP "...we're all in the same boat..."

Pat Anderson

Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 8553
City/Region: Birch Bay, WA
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Daydream
Photos: Daydream and Crabby Lou

Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:42 pm Post subject:

localboy wrote:

ken35216 wrote:

...while I'm in my land vehicles I try to give way to trains as well as big trucks on the highway. If you crash with any of these it does not matter who is at fault as you will lose.

In law enforcement it's called "The Lug Nut Rule". He who has the most lug nuts wins. In over 25 yrs I have not seen it proven false, ever.

Mark, I agree with you 100% here, in practice on the road or the waterway! The issue here however is after the fact. I do not know all the ins and outs, and would tend to think that the guy on the crapper away from the helm SHOULD be responsible, but it appears, maybe not! Could the ferry have avoided the collision? That appears to be the ultimate question. Seems wrong to me too...
_________________

DAYDREAM - CD25 Cruiser
CRABBY LOU - CD16 Angler (sold 2020)
Pat & Patty Anderson, C-Brat #62!
http://daydreamsloop.blogspot.com

hardee

Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 12633
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC

Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:08 pm Post subject:

Pat Anderson wrote:

localboy wrote:

ken35216 wrote:

...while I'm in my land vehicles I try to give way to trains as well as big trucks on the highway. If you crash with any of these it does not matter who is at fault as you will lose.

In law enforcement it's called "The Lug Nut Rule". He who has the most lug nuts wins. In over 25 yrs I have not seen it proven false, ever.

100% agreement here too. And the guy on the crapper should be 100% guilty -- > criminal endangerment, negligence, and probably a dozen other things Marc could recite.

I have checked with the WS Ferries on several occasions, regarding ETA off the dock, or meeting/crossing/passing situations. Always they are cordial, professional and responsive. (And listening on Vessel Traffic is not always helpful as I have seen them call in "Traffic, Walla Walla, we will be West bound out of Edmonds to Kinston in minutes" only to see them still UNLOADING vehicles, so I call on VHF 13 and get a personal answer, of 8-9 minutes to go, so you have plenty of time to cross before we leave the dock.

Harvey
SleepyC Moon

_________________
Though in our sleep we are not conscious of our activity or surroundings, we should not, in our wakefulness, be unconscious of our sleep.

thataway

Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20814
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway

Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:18 pm Post subject:

Know the rules of the road! Then use common sense to stay alive. One item not mentioned is use of the radio to make your intent known; know what channels the ships are on.

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