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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 17001
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We had used the Norcold chest type about 50 quarts--these have been labeled both Engle and Norcold. The current boat has a Norcold which has a swing motor.

We have used the Dometic 50 quart as both freezer and refrigerator. It uses the Danfoss compressor. However our first Dometic had failure of the thermistor (thermostat) about 2 weeks out of warrantee--it was a few weeks later we were back from the trip and several months after we had not been able to find anyone would could fix it. Finally the head technician at Dometic (WAECO) authorized a new unit. We kept the old unit, and added a new thermistor inside of the freezer. The original is foamed into the bottom of the insulation. You have to almost destroy the box to put a new one in. Both are still working, with the in-convience of having the cable inside the box. Even with the thermistor the refer/freezer would work--but just kept at a very low temp of about 5 degrees...Thermostat would not allow control--ran on emergency setting.

We bought a 65 qt ARB to replace the 55 qt unit. The other choice would have been another Engle--I felt that the reviews on the ARB were good, plus Pat Anderson had reported good success. with one for a number of years.

On the C Dory 22 "Thisaway" we also had a Whynter 62 qt dual chamber Refer/freezer (another C Brat had purchased this as a scratch and dent, and sold it to us for $200, since it would not fit in the cabin of his 25. That is still going. Dometic also makes a newer type of dual chamber freezer/refer. All of these can run at temperatures of 0 to about 50*F.

You pays your money and takes your choice on refer/freezers!

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Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL
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Discovery



Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 1168
City/Region: LOA, UTAH
State or Province: UT
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Discovery
Photos: Discovery
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have a Waeco 50 Qt fridge/freezer. I had the rear port side cabinet made a little bigger than standard when the boat was built.





We don't take it along on every cruise, but it's handy when we do extended trips to remote locations. Like SE Alaska or the Broughtons. Where provisions arn't always available.

Its powered by two group 31 FLA batteries, or 120 V AC when plugged in. Charged by the port motor and 200 watts of solar.

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Brent and Dixie,
1984 22' Classic sold 2003
2003 24' TomCat sold 2005
2006 TC255 Discovery
2006 CD 22' Angler Sold 2014
https://share.delorme.com/FBrentBetenson
"Free men do not ask permission to bear arms." ~ Thomas Jefferson
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JMacLeod



Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 111
City/Region: Stuart
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2018
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: C-Shalom
Photos: JMacLeod
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice thinking, especially being able to remove it for short trips.

Discovery wrote:
Its powered by two group 31 FLA batteries, or 120 V AC when plugged in. Charged by the port motor and 200 watts of solar.


Where are your house bats and cables run to?

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Discovery



Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 1168
City/Region: LOA, UTAH
State or Province: UT
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Discovery
Photos: Discovery
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The house batteries are three Group 27 FLA and are in the Stb. rear locker. Charged by the Stb. motor. The fridge/freezer batteries are two Group 31 FLA in the port rear locker. Charged by the port motor and the solar panels. I also ran a charge line from the truck 7 way plug to the port battery bank. That way the truck also keeps the fridge/freezer bank charged as we tow across country.

I have a combiner switch between the two battery banks and can make one bank of all five batteries. When we slow cruise and run on only one motor at a time, I will combine all five batteries. When I do this, I will take the key out of the ignition on the motor that is not running. I don't want to inadvertently run both alternators into the same battery bank at the same time.

I have found that the most important thing for long battery life is the quality of the battery charger one uses. I have a 'Pro Mariner' two bank 20 amp smart charger. Two banks of 10 amps each. The charger is on 24/7 whenever the boat is in storage. I check the water in the batteries once a year, usually in the Spring. It's really hard to do in the confined space.

The five batteries on 'Discovery' are 10 years old and I hope to use them for at least another year.

I would consider two battery banks consisting of two 'Battle Born" 6 V Lithium batteries in each bank. That would remove considerable weight from the rear of the TomCat, but would remove $4000 from the wallet.
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colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 2644
City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Midnight Flyer
Photos: Midnight Flyer
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My two cents on batteries. I just went through a lot of this searching for what's best a while back when I replaced my batteries. In the end, I decided that for the price, and with the stern location of battery placement, the old fashioned lead acid batteries just made the most economical sense. They've been around for a long time, and just about any battery charger will suffice! I run two batteries, but can't tell you exactly what size off the top of my head. Both batteries are marine, one being a starting battery, the other a deep cycle. Honestly, I believe the starting battery is also deep cycle. A group 27 and 31 comes to mind. But it may be a 24 and 27. I run all LED lighting, and the only other draw on the battery when the motor isn't running, would be a small fan and Cpap (without the humidifier). And my diesel fed heater, which would equate with the glow plug now and then, a blower fan and the fuel pump. I've never had a problem with all this stuff running over night. I did just purchase a small portable cooler (Engle), and plans are to leave it off overnight, supercooling it some before shutting down the motor or generator.
I do agree that a good charger does the best job at maintaining a longer life on the batteries. I have a Mastervolt 30A, which provides 3 levels of charging. I leave that on all winter while the boat is stored for the season. Regarding the battery type, just seems like if it ain't broke why fix it. I"m just not sold that the other battery types will last any longer, or at least relative to their expense. Colby
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Snider



Joined: 21 Jun 2013
Posts: 167
City/Region: Charleston
State or Province: SC
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Kestrel Dawn
Photos: Kestrel Dawn
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:01 am    Post subject: Battery Question Reply with quote

I thought I was done with batteries and chargers yesterday. Long story short, our travel trailers group 24 wouldn't charge over 13.3v and discharged very quickly. Come to find out the converter installed by the factory only charges to 13.3v and after almost two years of that the battery was shot. So I replaced the converter and upgraded to a Duracell group 31 AGM deep cycle.

Today I went out to do some small projects on the boat, it was cold so I tried to start the Wallas, which I've been having trouble with. Of course it wouldn't start, seeing as it was just refurbished a few months ago I called Scan Marine and they suggested trying it with the engine running and charging the battery even though the yellow indicator light wasn't blinking. Well that seems to be the problem as the heater fired right up.

Looking at my batteries on my 2002 22ft cruiser I have two Everstart group 24's, one starting and one deep cycle. Looks like they are from 09/14. I'm going to replace them both. I'm debating on upgrading to group 27's. I don't currently have any electronics, the only thing that would run at night when we overnight are the lights and the Walls heater. So from an electrical draw perspective I think going back with two Group 24's would be OK. Thoughts? Are you guys with 27's running fridges or other electronics? Even if I add radar and a plotter I'd only be using that when the engine is running mostly.

My question is should I get another starting battery for the engine and a deep cycle battery for the house? I keep reading that you should get the same type of batteries. I plan to go with the Duracell AGM's. Or should I just get two dual purpose batteries? If I get two separate ones I can just alternate which one is selected with the selector switch to charge when the engine is running.

Also I don't have an onboard charger. I have a 2002 90hp Honda which doesn't put out much amps, but I do occasionally put a portable charger on them. So is an onboard charger really necessary? I don't have $1,000 to spend on one.

Thanks

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Brandon
22ft Cruiser
Charleston SC
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DavidM



Joined: 24 Dec 2017
Posts: 153
City/Region: Punta Gorda
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Several thoughts:

Bigger is always better when you are talking about batteries, so go with the G 27s. IMO there is very little if no difference between deep, dual and starting batteries when you are talking about AGMs. So go with the same for both.

You don't have a shore power charger and the charging you get from an outboard is like the converter that you replaced in your RV, it only has s fixed voltage. So your batteries are always chronically undercharged.

I would get a portable three step charger, you don't need more than 10 amps and plug it in at least once a week to bring the batteries up to full charge. Better would be a permanent shore power system with charger, but I get that you don't want to spend the money. Another solution is a small solar panel, but at least 50 watts with a suitable controller.

Check out those on this page: https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_3_12?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=50+watt+solar+panel+kit&sprefix=50+watt+sola%2Caps%2C187&crid=CCTI1FR9EI2D

Renogy sells pretty good stuff.

David
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Snider



Joined: 21 Jun 2013
Posts: 167
City/Region: Charleston
State or Province: SC
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Kestrel Dawn
Photos: Kestrel Dawn
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks David. I've been looking at 10a mounted chargers. Mastervolt makes one but I can't find one online, their easy charge would work.

https://www.mastervolt.com/products/easycharge/easycharge-10a/

What about something like this Morinco?

https://www.hodgesmarine.com/Marinco-10a-On-Board-Battery-Charger-12-24v-p/mac28210.htm
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 17001
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definitely go to the group 27. There are some good reasons for AGM: do not have to have electrolyte topped off, can be put in the cabin, can be mounted in almost any direction (on side or end--but not upside down), and low self discharge. They also will take a charge faster.

The 90 Honda puts out 17 amps--but less than that is available for battery charging--most of the time the voltage is in the 14..2 to 14.5 range. OK for the AGM./

Agree with a charger after each trip to top the batteries off. Any of the recognized brands, and a 10 amp would be OK for your use---if you were staying on the boat in the marina, and running more items, then I would suggest a 20 amp--with a fan--battery charger.

The Wallas can be a significant draw at start up (8 amps) but in the 150 to 200 milliamps when running in stove--a little more in heater configuration--also LED lights may cut your use significantly.

Most RV's do use a converter--which is really not a battery charger. There are several which do have 3 stage charging module or "wizard" as they say.
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Snider



Joined: 21 Jun 2013
Posts: 167
City/Region: Charleston
State or Province: SC
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Kestrel Dawn
Photos: Kestrel Dawn
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies. So I think I'm going with this Prosport 20.

https://www.amazon.com/ProMariner-43012-ProSport-Battery-Charger/dp/B00F5EBS66/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1544033026&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=promariner%2Bbattery%2Bcharger&th=1

Also will upgrade to 27's as I do plan to put in fans. Can I get a group 24 for the starting and group 27 for house?

The next question is the best mounting place? I was thinking under the stove on the aft bulkhead, or closer to the batteries which are located between the fuel tanks, say on the inside of the splash well over the tanks? I'l leaning towards the cabin, don't really want to be plugging in things right over the fuel tanks.

For led lights did you just get replacement led bulbs or replace the actual light fixture?

Thanks


Last edited by Snider on Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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DavidM



Joined: 24 Dec 2017
Posts: 153
City/Region: Punta Gorda
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Marinco would work just fine. Hook up the two outputs separately to the two batteries. You can mount the charger in a convenient place and with a short plug-in cable, hook it up with an extension cord when you need to charge.

David
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dgeorges



Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 139
City/Region: Springfield
State or Province: IL
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: FRESH FISH
Photos: FRESH FISH
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great dialogue and awesome ideas. Just put two new batteries in my CD22 with great confidence thanks to all of you CBRATERS. After doing my usage budget, I decided on two AGM's, a size 24 for the starting battery, and a size 31 with 105 Amps for the house battery.

Installed a BlueSea BatteryLink Charger/ACR:
https://www.bluesea.com/products/7605/10A_BatteryLink_Charger_%5BNorth_America%5D

I was amazed with how the device instantly charged the two batteries (through the voltage/amperage monitor). Very cool. Can't wait to start putting the batteries to good use out on the water early next spring.

Thanks to all again for the great post(s).

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CD 22 Cruiser: FRESH FISH. 2018 to present.
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 17001
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Generally it is advised to have equal batteries (age, size, and type) when combining them. Thus I would suggest two group; 27's

I personally like the charger inside the cabin--less chance of corrosion. I have put them under the dinette or under the galley sink. Where ever the power cord is most convenient. If there is a AC panel under the dinette, then I would put the charger there. If you need to put in a single breaker and outlet for the charger--under the galley is more convenient.
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Foggy



Joined: 01 Aug 2013
Posts: 1093
City/Region: Traverse City; Northern Lake Michigan
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C-Dory Year: 2014
C-Dory Model: 26 Venture
Photos: W B Nod
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was surprised to learn for twin outboards (Honda 90s), each requires its own
starting battery. So that means 3 batteries for the redundant types since you'll
also need a house battery.

For twins on a 22CD, I'd put in 3 AGM Gr 27s and for larger 3 AGM 31s; all deep
cycle since they'll meet the engine battery specs for engines for these boats.

You can never have too much juice as thirst is a dangerous thing.

Aye.

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DavidM



Joined: 24 Dec 2017
Posts: 153
City/Region: Punta Gorda
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know of any requirement for separate, dedicated batteries for twin engines.

David
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