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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20806
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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 Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | All in all, in my opinion, this is the wrong kind of development for this area. |
I suspect that a lot of us feel that way. I don't remember much about the cove, but enjoyed my visit to the barge/docks several times on our trips up and down the inland passage 20+ years ago. Excellent point on the length of the rails/vs size of the barges. We can only guess where a\ny pollutants which are trapped, if they are, will go. A lot of forrest nearby....With logging roads already in place.
Looking even the very low resolution photos on Google Earth, it looks like a junk yard where his current operation is. Since none of us lives there our opinions don't carry any weight..
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Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL |
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Larry H
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 2041
City/Region: Tulalip,
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1991
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Nancy H
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| Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="thataway"] | Quote: | | Since none of us lives there our opinions don't carry any weight.. |
For sure, the only weight we can swing is the weight of foreign tourist dollars. Tourist dollars do mean something in that area, but is that enough? We will just have to wait for the decision.
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Larry H
A C-Brat since Nov 1, 2003
Ranger Tug 27 ex 'Jacari Maru' 2017 - 2022
Puget Trawler 37 ex 'Jacari Maru' 2006-2017
1991 22' Cruiser, 'Nancy H'--1991-2006 |
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BTDT
Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 322
City/Region: Grand Lake Oklahoma
State or Province: OK
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C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: C- Lark Wine Down
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| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:20 am Post subject: |
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Quote from the planning analysis: "The owners advise that marine industrial activities have been historically undertaken on the subject property and adjacent marine areas. These uses are not currently permitted by the applicable zoning"
Wow! So the owner/operator is admitting he has been historically violating the law, and now wants to permit, and expand his present illegal industrial activities? Sounds more like the same fox is asking to guard a larger hen house? 
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John & Vicki Clark
C-Lark Wine Down
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AstoriaDave
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 994
City/Region: Astoria
State or Province: OR
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| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting discussion, and a situation similar to others in BC.
My Canadian buddies tell me that aggressive criticism from the US is often counterproductive ... you all understand the history for that.
Better to channel support, in words or funds, through a Canadian pressure group.
I have a longstanding friendship with an outfitter centered near the Broughtons, on Guilford, who is my route. I suspect Pierre at Echo Bay might be another route to pursue. He will know groups over on/near Cracroft to contact.
Environmental issues often are resolved via back room deals in BC, in my experience.
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Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR |
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hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 12632
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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The Google Earth photos are several years old. Much of Buttles property has been clear cut over the last 2 years.
Yes he admits to exceeding his current permit specs, but says he is catching all that up now and wants to make that "legal or legitimate" now.
Yes the whole thing is a mess, but we can thank, in part, the regulatory agencys who provided the use permit and then did no follow up "policing" that use.
Both Port Harvey Marine Resort and the owner of Misty Island who wants to build a retirement home there have been coninuously hassled about their permits and use since they started there. (Building a dock, fore beach use, every step necessary for progress they have tried to do, they have had to do in micro steps.)
Just hoping for a sensibly decided outcome.
Harvey
SleepyC 
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Though in our sleep we are not conscious of our activity or surroundings, we should not, in our wakefulness, be unconscious of our sleep. |
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hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
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City/Region: Sequim
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| Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry for the duplicate post.
Harvey
SleepyC |
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hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 12632
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
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Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
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| Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:46 am Post subject: |
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The decision meeting takes place next week in Port McNiell, and I will not be able to attend. Sure wish I could but just not able due to other commitments.
Sure hope someone can be there from the CBRAT community. Anyone going to be up on the northern edge of the Broughtons? The hearing building is just a short walk from the marina, but yes, it is all up hill.
The marine railway is a part of the planed additional service and it is not just a "tidal grid" way.
Harvey
SleepyC
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hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
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City/Region: Sequim
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:39 am Post subject: |
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I just received an email report on the hearing at Port McNeil regarding the rezoning to industrial use for the neighboring property of Mike Buttle. The full email message is here:
| Quote: | “Hello Richard and Harvey,
Yesterday, the planning committee decided not to proceed with rezoning the Buttle property at the present time. They want to visit Port Harvey and they want more information on environmental controls, compatibility with existing uses and more details on their options. No one got up and said that they should proceed. It looks like all our work at the public hearing is bearing fruit.
Because BC law requires that if more information is received (eg a site visit) then another public hearing must be held. This means that there may be another public hearing around October/November. We will not get as many boaters to attend the hearing at this time of the year but we can hopefully get even more letters of protest. So, be prepared to send another letter and make a list of any friends who might also be inclined to submit a letter. I will keep you up-dated after the next meeting which will be on September 19.
Thanks so much for your support.
Peter (Stockdill)
PS: George was at the meeting yesterday as well and he reports that Buttle just continues to work on his shipyard.” |
At the meeting in July, there was an offer to the board of commissioners, by a gentleman who owns a water taxi and tow business in the area, to take the whole board out to Port Harvey so they could see what was going on there. Obviously those “Government Officials” don’t take their job very seriously, and so decided not to decide, putting off again, the decision that they need to make. In saying they need more information, they are only delaying and allowing Buttle to continue to operate without supervision and to continue to harass and endanger both the environment and the public.
The next meeting will be on Sept 19 and then there will be an announcement for another public hearing. At that time, there will be a need for more public input, (read that as emails and letters and even personal visits) to the board, and a date for their acceptance will be announced. I will keep that updated here.
In the meantime, anyone who has been up to Port Harvey could sure help by collecting and writing any supporting statements to be sent in when the time comes.
Thanks for your concern and your input.
Harvey
SleepyC
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hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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Curious, anyone here remotely interested in attending a meeting at Port McNiel about this. It would be the third Tues in either Oct or Nov. Won't know for sure for a while.
I am planning on going, and if the weather is decent, and it is in October, will probably go up on the bike. Might be a fun ride. Or carpool if there are takers.
Harvey
SleepyC
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Pandion
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 274
City/Region: Kenmore
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Osprey
Photos: Osprey
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| AstoriaDave wrote: | My Canadian buddies tell me that aggressive criticism from the US is often counterproductive ... you all understand the history for that.
Better to channel support, in words or funds, through a Canadian pressure group. |
| hardee wrote: | | Curious, anyone here remotely interested in attending a meeting at Port McNiel about this. |
Harvey, I might be interested, depending on whether I can get the time off work—but first I would like to hear some more discussion about Astoria Dave's observation that it may not be productive to have people from the U.S. weighing in, directly.
I would be particularly interested in hearing from some of our Canadian C-Brats brethren on this matter.
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Andy Ryan
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hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 12632
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
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| Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:59 am Post subject: |
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Bob Austin said: (in part)
| Quote: | | “…. Since none of us lives there our opinions don't carry any weight..” |
Larry H said: (in part)
| Quote: | | “…. For sure, the only weight we can swing is the weight of foreign tourist dollars. Tourist dollars do mean something in that area, but is that enough?” |
Astoria Dave said: (in part)
| Quote: | “….My Canadian buddies tell me that aggressive criticism from the US is often counterproductive ... you all understand the history for that.
Better to channel support, in words or funds, through a Canadian pressure group.” |
Andy said: (in part)
| Quote: | | ".... I would be particularly interested in hearing from some of our Canadian C-Brats brethren on this matter." |
When I was up at the meeting July 18, (recapped here):
| Quote: | “There were 28 representatives of the public, and 10 of government officials there. There were 3 in support of the Buttle Organization (Pacificus), 2 of which were in his employment, (a Director of Operation and a Biologist), and the room was full, actually packed. There were, among others, 2 physicians, one planning on building a retirement home across the bay, on Misty Island, from what was becoming Mike Buttle's demolition yard; a retired Geologist, with concerns about the environmental status resulting from the pollution of a demolition yard; a retired RCMP officer with concerns about the track record of the Buttle industry; several recreational boaters from the US with concerns about coming in to the marina and having to deal with the noise and the loss of anchoring space; one with a concern and example of the Buttle approach to visiting recreational boaters, (harassing to the point of endangerment); and then the owners, (George and Gail Cambridge), of Port Harvey Marine Resort, with concern for both their business future and the value of their property changing from rural resort level to industrial neighbors.”
“There were 65 written statements provided to the board directors, plus the statements of the 25 public representatives, who each had a chance to speak at least twice, or a third time if wanted. The meeting lasted nearly 3 hours, which may have been close to a record as was the public response demonstrated by attendance. There was also a reporter from a local paper, the Eagle, the North Island news paper representing Port McNeill and Port Hardy.”
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There were several folks from the US there, and it was made known to us that they appreciated that we took an interest in the proceedings, and the future of the marine Resort. There were several comments to us as individuals and as a group to support our being there and our input. I think our voice counts, as do our dollars because this is a marine community and they realize the importance of the impact of both cruise and fishing dollars to their community.
Being there shows significant interest and dedication, and if you can’t be there, write. I will have addresses and email address when available. As noted in the meeting report, there were 65 written documents. And I was also told that the commissioners appreciated the written comments because they can study them, better than the in person ones. Who knows?
Dave, I would be interested in hearing more on your thoughts as to why your friend thinks just sending money would do more good? I realize, money can’t hurt, and a US dollar has more clout than a Canadian dollar by about 25%, last time I checked. (July 1, 2017). So, they may have a point, in at least sending US dollars. I don’t know any particular interest groups to send money to but I can probably find some of that info and post here
Thanks for the input and comments. It’s good to see that someone else has some interest. And in the long run, whether you have been to Port Harvey or have a possibility of going in the future, your voice can count, one at a time, each in their own unique way, it counts, IF you use it.
Harvey
SleepyC
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20806
City/Region: Pensacola
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C-Dory Year: 2007
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Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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| Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the update Harvey. I did write one lengthy e-mail to the commission. I can easily write another. I wonder if there would be some time given for Buttle to "Sanitize" his operations before the visit.
I am a little surprised we are not hearing from C Brats who live on Vancouver Island. Wish we were closer--and I would attend. |
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Pandion
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 274
City/Region: Kenmore
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Osprey
Photos: Osprey
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| Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| hardee wrote: | | ... I don’t know any particular interest groups to send money to but I can probably find some of that info and post here. |
Please let us know what you can find out, Harvey. If there is an organized group fighting this odious project, it would be good to know what range of assistance they might want. |
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Pandion
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 274
City/Region: Kenmore
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Osprey
Photos: Osprey
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| Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| thataway wrote: | | ... I wonder if there would be some time given for Buttle to "Sanitize" his operations before the visit. |
Smart observation, Bob. From everything I've read here to date, the project has the odor of being a done deal. |
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hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 12632
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
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Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
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| Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| thataway wrote: | Thanks for the update Harvey. I did write one lengthy e-mail to the commission. I can easily write another. I wonder if there would be some time given for Buttle to "Sanitize" his operations before the visit.
I am a little surprised we are not hearing from C Brats who live on Vancouver Island. Wish we were closer--and I would attend. |
I am sure that writing another email would not hurt, even bringing up the fact that now he (Buttle) knows a visit is impending, he would have time to "sanitize" alnog with anything else that might or could help.
As soon as I get any new info (like dates or adresses) I will post here.
And Yes, I'm am curious too why there hasn't been anything more from the BC BRATS. Good point there , too, Bob.
Harvey
SleepyC
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