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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20875 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:44 pm Post subject: Anchoring at Lake Powell |
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At the Recent Lake Powell gathering I noticed that "new" boats to Powell were not equipped or did not understand anchoring under the conditions found there. During our trip this year, we had winds in excess of 40 knots on 3 occasions, so winds can be expected up there, and a good set of the anchor is essential. Also the type of anchor is important. We had used a Delta Quick set in the past, but on an average had drug on 2 nights out of a 2 to 4 week trip. This year, we went with a light weight "Boss" From Manson supreme. This anchor did not drag, and set quickly, on a short scope. At the gathering we noted Claw or Bruce type, Delta, Manson Supreme and Boss, Fortress, and Danforth anchors. There may have been some others--I know that Jody set a "box" anchor.
When looking for an anchoring area, look for good sand, with no brush under the water at the set point (there may be some brush between you and the bank. We always run over the area several times with the depth sounder, as well as put the bow near the beach to look for rocks or other obstructions before we drop the hook. We use the depth finder--and now the "down scan" gives us an even better picture of the bottom.
Here is RIGI setting their hook well off the beach properly:
In this area, we had about 7: 1 scope out.
When you back to the shore, let plenty of line out, to an at least 3:1 scope and see if the anchor is set. We let the full weight of the boat come back, and check for dragging, by applying reverse thrust. As this point we estimate how far back the boat will have to come, before we come back to the beach were the crew can step off, in water which is not too deep and yet deep enough that the trim tabs, depth sounder transducers or engine lower units will hit. Sometimes this backing down, may take several tries, and of course it is better to have the depth too deep, and avoid damage to the lower units! We start to bring the lower unit to the depth where it is still getting enough cooling water, but will easily come up, clear of the water when we stop the engine as the mate steps ashore.
RIGI is just at the right depth, the crew ashore is in shoal water and ready to take one of the two anchors ashoreL
We happen to use two light weight Fortress or Guardian anchors, with about 6 feet of 1/4" chain attached, and 3/8" or 5/16" line.
The second anchor is then taken ashore:
Some folks use steel stakes (or even PVC pipe) hammered into the ground:
This stake is Pat Anderson's and has several toggles to increase its holding. We have seen straight steel stakes, and even old fence posts.
Also we used a "deadman" such as a rock or log buried:
In another case a mushroom anchor was buried:
Finally we finish off the moor with two spring lines from the main rode, which will prevent bow roller chafe, and allow a little more shock absorption. When heavy winds we tend to pull a bit off the shore. Note we never leave the anchor rode on the windlass:
Finally at Lake Powell we want to avoid critters--several folks have had ring tail cats, and kangaroo rats come aboard, so a rat guard is appropriate:
Note that Frisbies are the item of choice--but I suspect the foil may also work.
Some folks come bow to the beach--usually a bow anchor buried in a hole on the beach, and or two stern anchors from each aft quarter:
Such as Discovery and C View II
(note that Discovery has a "pocket dog"--those of us with slightly larger dogs like to go stern to, to easy their way ashore…. Both of these boats have bow ladders) _________________ Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL |
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Lost Petrel
Joined: 10 Aug 2014 Posts: 138 City/Region: Potter Valley
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Wild Blue
Photos: Wild Blue
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Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for the post Bob, as we plan on getting Wild Blue down to Powell next year. Currently she is set up with a Delta, but I do have claw, so I am wondering how those using a claw fared. _________________ Tim
http://lostpetrel.blogspot.com/
Other boats;
Cape Dory Typhoon
Pearson Ariel
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Sunbeam
Joined: 23 Feb 2012 Posts: 3990 City/Region: Out 'n' About
State or Province: Other
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Sunbeam
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Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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Very useful post!
Thataway: I take it that is your 22's bow with the snubber lines coming to two cleats in the typical "fairlead" position on the bow? If so, I'd be interested to know what size/brand cleats they are and how you like them. I would like to add similar cleats, but when I held various ones up to "try" them, it seemed tight between the deck pipe and the bow pulpit leg on starboard side (or the cleats that seemed roomy there, seemed as though they might be a bit small in use). You know how it is - sometimes hard to tell before actually using something. At any rate, those look good - plenty of room to starboard and not too small for the line, so I wonder what they are (if you know).
Thanks,
Sunbeam |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20875 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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Lost Petrel, I am not a big fan of the Claw type, but that is a personal preference, based on limited experience. I have used the Delta on most of my personal boats--after large CQR's on larger motor sailors. I would also have a Fortress or Danforth HT as a mud/sand anchor. In the cases where I had issues with the Delta dragging, I had a Fortress which did hold. I normally carry 2 Guardians G 7 l and 1 Fortress F 7 aboard. We did not have any heavy winds during the actual gathering, so I cannot comment on how well the Claw held. I did have over 40 knots on 3 occasions during the 3 1/2 weeks we were on the Lake--at times these gusts were on the beam, and the Boss did not budge. I would consider a 25# Boss as a alternative anchor on the C Dory 25. But picking up a F 11 anchor for a second bow anchor would be an excellent idea. I have not yet addressed the recent Fortress tests--but in these the Fortress out performed all of the other anchors by a long ways in mud.
Sunbeam. These are the SS cleats from West Marine. These are the 6" cleats, but I used 1/4" fasteners. There is 1.5" clearance from the leading edge of the forward post of the bow rail. The snubbers are only 5/16" line, so I did use small cleats. I used fender washers under the cleats, but the real back up, is the main rode with the original cleat which came on the C Dory 22. There is plenty of room for a proper set of turns for this size line, but I would not use these as primary mooring cleats at a dock.
I did leave off one photo:
We carry several pieces of the foam insulation used for water pipes, and use this for chafe protection on the line--either on the boat, or over rocks. At times we do wrap chains around rocks, rather than use an anchor on the stern--and we carry extra bow shackles for this purpose. |
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jkidd
Joined: 23 Oct 2006 Posts: 1628 City/Region: Northern, Utah
State or Province: UT
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Voyager
Photos: Voyager (JK)
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Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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Nice post Bob my Manson Boss is on its way. Still like the box anchor because of the 2 to 1 scope and no chain. Of course it can't hurt that it is for a 40 foot boat. _________________ Jody Kidd
KE7WNG
Northern, Utah
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Hunkydory
Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 2684 City/Region: Cokeville, Wyoming
State or Province: WY
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Hunkydory
Photos: Hunkydory-Jay-and-Jolee
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Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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Jody, what size of Boss did you order? Bob, I sure agree with Jody about posting this thread being good stuff. It should make it much simpler for all concerned if those planning on future Gatherings at Lake Powell learn from it & follow your suggestions.
Jay _________________ Jay and Jolee 2000 22 CD cruiser Hunkydory
I will not waste my days in trying to prolong them------Jack London
https://share.delorme.com/JuliusByers |
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Lost Petrel
Joined: 10 Aug 2014 Posts: 138 City/Region: Potter Valley
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Wild Blue
Photos: Wild Blue
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Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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Thank You again Bob,
I do have a Danforth as a secondary anchor on the boat, but will pick up a Fortress to replace it as it packs so much better. I have no real experience with the claw either, it was something I picked up on a good deal.
I have always been satisfied with my Delta, but most of my anchoring has been in the PNW, or small lakes in mud. |
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jkidd
Joined: 23 Oct 2006 Posts: 1628 City/Region: Northern, Utah
State or Province: UT
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Voyager
Photos: Voyager (JK)
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Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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Jay I ordered a 15 so I'm in the middle. |
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Sunbeam
Joined: 23 Feb 2012 Posts: 3990 City/Region: Out 'n' About
State or Province: Other
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Sunbeam
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Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the cleat detail, Thataway. I will be using them for the same purpose as you - to cleat off the anchor snubber. So the smaller cleats should work fine (will be using smaller line). I will still have another "main" cleat for other purposes.
I had considered removing the deck pipe (after adding the windlass) but I don't think I am going to because I like being able to reach in and access the rode. I might put it in a different place if starting from scratch (so as to have a bit more cleat room there on the starboard side); but I figured I could make the additional cleats work anyway -- and seeing your added cleats with things in the same basic position is confirmation.
I was just today thinking I would like to get a Fortress (or Guardian) for my next anchor. I currently have a 15# Supreme (main), a ~9# claw (secondary bow or stern anchor) and a 1# Bruce (dinghy anchor). Seems like a Fortress/rode would be a nice addition, and with the ability to break down to stow at certain times. Just have to figure out which size (for some reason I can never "visualize" their various sizes as I can with other anchor types).
Sunbeam
(I also have a 22# Bruce but it's not set up with a rode and not on the boat at all. I thought I might prefer it to seeing the "hoop" on the Supreme, but so far am sticking with the Supreme for main anchor. Not sure how Bruce would "launch" if/when I put windlass on - the Supreme fairly leaps off the roller.)
PS: Powell content: I have used the "dog tie out" corkscrew skewers on Powell. They are not mega strong, but for certain places/situations they worked really well (often in conjunction with shore anchor) and they are very compact to carry along. Some of the stronger stakes look even better though. For those or shore anchors I have two 50' 3/8" lines (in addition to anchor rodes, dock lines, etc.). They have worked well, although I wouldn't want any less length. Last fall we had mice get past the frisbees - I think that the holes I drilled in them were a touch too large (3/8" for 3/8" line) and they got through where the "grooves" are in the 3-strand line. Crafty buggers! |
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SeaSpray
Joined: 12 Mar 2004 Posts: 1007 City/Region: Brentwood, CA
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SeaSpray
Photos: SeaSpray
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Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:07 am Post subject: |
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Hi Bob,
Good information. I am not sure I would be comfortable in my CD22 'bow in' with just the bow anchor buried. I wonder with strong wind wind and waves if you could wind up beam to the shore. Not good if there are waves.
I anchored in Oak bay one time 'bow in' and had 40 knt gusts when a cell passed over. We had set two anchors, one from each stern cleat to shore. About 45 degrees and well buried. The wind did clock around a little but was mostly from the side. The windward anchor rode was bar tight and the other was drooping. Fortunately the anchors held and the wind stopped after about an hour.
Steve |
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Lost Petrel
Joined: 10 Aug 2014 Posts: 138 City/Region: Potter Valley
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Wild Blue
Photos: Wild Blue
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Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:06 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | they got through where the "grooves" are in the 3-strand line. Crafty buggers! |
Sheesh! Now I see why Jim and Joan always kept a cat aboard. |
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Sunbeam
Joined: 23 Feb 2012 Posts: 3990 City/Region: Out 'n' About
State or Province: Other
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Sunbeam
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Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:37 am Post subject: |
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Maybe they need "rent-a-cats" just for Powell (Or rent-a-snakes?)
The one thing that saved my sanity (not a fan of mice!) is that I was able to keep them out of the cabin. WHEW! Still, having one aboard and needing to keep the cabin door closed to keep it out is a pain. This year I have simply anchored out every night with no lines to shore, but that wouldn't be as sociable when with a group, so wouldn't necessarily be my choice then (since I got here after the CBGT, I'm out solo - would be more fun with some other Brats along though!). Also some spots are just nice for beaching (and we can!). |
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JamesTXSD
Joined: 01 Mar 2005 Posts: 7449 City/Region: from island boy to desert dweller
State or Province: AZ
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: "Wild Blue" (sold 9/14)
Photos: Wild Blue
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Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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Lost Petrel wrote: | Quote: | they got through where the "grooves" are in the 3-strand line. Crafty buggers! |
Sheesh! Now I see why Jim and Joan always kept a cat aboard. |
Please note: little Izzy is NOT for rent. No evidence of a "kill" during our times at Lake Powell, but we did find a couple expired field mice carcasses while we were in the Tetons... that she caught while out on her leash!
I highly recommend a cat onboard, for more than mouse duty.
To keep this on-topic, none of our cats have been helpful in anchoring. |
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Discovery
Joined: 08 Dec 2003 Posts: 1240 City/Region: LOA, UTAH
State or Province: UT
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Discovery
Photos: Discovery
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Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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The new Manson Boss 25# on Discovery. _________________
Brent and Dixie,
1984 22' Classic sold 2003
2003 24' TomCat sold 2005
2006 TC255 Discovery Sold 2020
2006 CD 22' Angler Sold 2014
https://share.delorme.com/FBrentBetenson
"Free men do not ask permission to bear arms." ~ Thomas Jefferson |
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jkidd
Joined: 23 Oct 2006 Posts: 1628 City/Region: Northern, Utah
State or Province: UT
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Voyager
Photos: Voyager (JK)
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Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know why but that doesn't look as big as Jay's 25 lb. what were your ideas for the change. Mine was when it was dragging through the sand and wouldn't bite and Jay's was just kind of planted. |
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