New versus used?

[Ordutch1975]

Hi everyone, this has been covered before but I can't find it. What are your opinions on new versus used my wife and I are about to sign for a new 23 venture. The cost with options we want is in the upper 80s not including electronics. I know this is a personal financial decision but I want your thoughts. I have previously had a horrible experience with a used boat and am gun shy with that. I still everytime I take out my used boat even tho she runs great now stress about the old engine when out in rougher waters. On the pro side I like the idea of no stress about reliability at least for the near term and I maintain everything I have impeccably so I figure at least 10 years of peace of mind. On the down side is cost. For a little over half the price I can buy a 10-12 year old boat. I am not a mechanic but know how to maintain my boat. Our intended purpose is regular cruising (multi day) and some light fishing. (I put about 80 hours a year on my boat)

Thoughts? Am I throwing my money away with a new boat?

[Wandering Sagebrush]

I stressed over everything on a new boat, now 12 years old.

I think the newer technologies in the engines and electronics are substantial, and has been mentioned previously, folks believe the boats have excellelent quality when compared to those made by previous owners. That's not to say the older boats were bad. My perspective is based on a CD 22, not a Venture 23.

If it were me, I'd go for the new boat. Part of why I say that is for the lighter engines with more HP, the advances in electronics, and the joy of fitting out a new boat.

Assuming you have a thorough survey on a used boat, I don't think you can go wrong either way.

[RobLL]

I had an utterly horrible experience with a surveyor, managed with the assistance of seller and my own experience to recover. Don't hire a surveyor without checking around and getting recommendations.

The most serious issues with a c-dory regards water invasion into the balsam core and the condition of the motor. A surveyor will refer you to a mechanic for the second of these. There are likely people who can address the former issue if you ask around.

As for the minimal electrical/electronics on a c-dory they either work, or they don't, and you can compare the cost of replacing them with an estimated residual value of existing ones.

Ideally either the factory or some of their great dealers could do the equivalent of 'certified used cars'. It would cost a few/several thousand but many of us would find it worth it.

A used boat likely will have some deferred maintenance, or will acquire some in the near future. Boats cost money.

[PaulNBriannaLynn]

Ill echo what he said. Fuel injected outboards with variable valve timing, touch screen electronics with incredible picture of the bottom. These are not insignificant advances.

If you add up the cost of new outboards, and electronics, and that new boat feeling, the difference in price doesn't seem that much now does it?!!

Honestly if money isn't an issue and you can afford it, go new.

[Aurelia]

Sounds like new is a good option for how you would like to relate to and use the boat. Unless you could find a used boat that could use re-powering and new electronics anyway. You may come out ahead moneywise but the used option will take more effort from you to get it setup the way you want it.

Greg

[ken35216]

I just had a 25 Cruiser built and had it built EXACTLY the way I wanted it. NWI really is doing a fantastic job building the new C-Dories. Quality is evident. But don't fool yourself however as there is always things to fix/repair/add to a new boat as well as a used one.

I voted new as I could not be happier with my new boat!

However, when I decided to buy new my decision was made knowing I would not trade/sell the boat for a long long time (God willing). If you want to sell in a year or two it's better to buy used.

[ssobol]

I have no problem buying late model used anything. This significantly lowers the price and you get fairly recent technology. Boat motors do not change every year like cars do. Every few years an update is done (like new BF100), But all the BF90Ds are pretty much identical over several years. For instance, I think you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between an 08 and a 11 model BF90D.

New electronics are a little different. But no matter what you buy today, in 6 months they'll have something better. You just need to get something that works and then not obsess over what's coming.

My chartplotter was bought by the PO. It is at least 7 years old. Is it as good as the latest thing out there? Definitely not. Does it do what I want and need it to do? Most certainly. Is it worth replacing with the latest thing? No, there is no compelling reason to do that.

Any large low volume item like a boat is going to have a certain amount of hand work done to make it. While C-Dory's are relatively simple, a used one will likely have all the manufacturing kinks worked out of it by someone else. The motor will be broken in, and all the infant mortality should be over. In the case of a C-Dory, likely several owner improvements will also be installed.

IMO, getting a well kept example that is a few years old is a better bet than buying brand new.

In a boat pretty much anything can fail, new or used. If you are stressed out by cruising in a used boat, I don't think that cruising in a new one will really make that much difference. You need to be familiar with whatever boat you have and its good and bad points/areas. Same is true if the boat is new or not.

However, everyone has to make their own decisions and find their own comfort zone.

In my case I certainly have a lower level of anxiety about all the things that could possibly go wrong with the boat when we are cruising than my wife.

[BillE]

If you can write the check without having to shortchange any of life's other commitments and the only reason to buy used is to get a good deal---then buy new and get just exactly what you want.
You are not being dumb by buying new, at all, especially if you will keep the boat for several years. Some of us are limited in our means and resources and some simply HAVE to get a "deal" to feel right about a purchase. If that's you, then you should know yourself by now and so keep searching for that elusive great deal.
But if you just want to enjoy a great boat and you really can afford it, then quit worrying about it and write that check-----and, congrats!

[thataway]

I have owned a number of boats--and bought 4 new (including a Tom Cat). The other 20+ have been used. (OK we built a few boats along the way also). Every one of my new boats had some serious problems. I still see some issues in new C Dorys. The case of my Tom Cat, It was about 200 miles to the dealer, and I knew I could fix the issues better than the dealer could. The only time I called on the dealer for quick help--was when the hydraulic steering failed --about the second time out. The dealer did one of their mechanics to power bleed and help install the new helm unit which Teleflex had overnight expressed. (I had to arrange that). There I bought new, because there were no used, I wanted specific upgrades--and did not get them. But that was over 10 years ago, Different owners now, and I believe better.

I have also purchased one C Dory with known abuse and serious issues--but it was purchased at half the value of the boat. I did it as a project, and it was a good boat, and wise financial decision.

The point about newer motors is valid. But most motors after 2007 are injected, so injection is not an issue. Same with larger alternators. Look at the hours on the engines. Although some in commercial use, get up to 10,000 hours, on outboard motors, but in the average use of a C Dory, one would strongly consider replacing motors over 2500 hours..

Electronics--Ssobol is spot on. The older ones are still good if they work--but the newest latest greatest, do have some really great features. My son's boat has a JRC Radar 20 years old--and it works very well. On the other hand, we bought him a new depth sounder/chart plotter, with better charts, and down scan/side scan for the fish finder.

Also consider what you want in a boat. I like the plain interior, where I can turn the hose on it, scrub it out if necessary. I have seen too many headliners which sag and get mold behind. But since I live in Fl. that is a greater problem that in the PNW.

My current C Dory was in excellent condition, engine low hours, minimal electronics, and for me as good, or better than a new boat. Only down, was that the engine was not injected, and had a smaller alternator, than the newer boats. Not worth the $10 to 12K to re-power.

As most have said--only you can determine if you can "Afford" a new boat. How you manage your finances is very personal. As one who has been retired over 25 years, I observe that many folks do not save enough for a really comfortable retirement, and don't understand the uncertainty and costs of aging.

[Foggy]

No doubt about it, buying a boat impacts your finances. Better 'deal' with a
used boat? Maybe. Assurance of fewer problems with a new boat? You are
dreaming.

Purchasing any boat, unless you depend on it for your primary occupation, falls
into the category of "disposable income." Just like gambling or chasing women.
There could be a reward in it but you just don't know for sure. The only truth is
it is going to cost you. The best you can hope for is pleasurable cruises shared
(boat), a big win (gambling) or some memorable sporting (women).

Yup. It's the unusual boat that isn't just a hole in the water to throw money into.

That said, disposable income is like "recreational money". Spending it doesn't
have to make sense if you enjoy it. Then it's a win/win. You can afford it and it
gives you pleasure.

Realize once you get into it, there is no perfect boat for all occasions. To do it
right, you'll need several boats all at once or over time. Just read the nautical
craft lineage of many of the contributors to this forum. I rest my case.

Aye.

[MikeR]

If a good used boat had been available at the time I was looking last year, there would have been no reservations buying it at almost any asking price....My budget (set before even beginning the search) was all the way up to the price of a new 22. But at the time, the boats on the market would appear great in the photos, and be advertised as "excellent condition", only to disappoint when viewed in-person. There was this fear that my search for the perfect gem might take a long time.

Then, after going on some of the new boats, both at the dealer and the boat show, there was no question, "new boat" was really what I wanted and so the order was placed. As luck would have it, a few weeks after placing that order, a local C-Brat boat came on the market that probably would have met those criteria, but I was still happy to be getting a new boat even at the higher cost.

You definitely can't go wrong with a new boat if it's within your budget. And in your case, probably even harder to find a "like new" used 23, since they are somewhat hard to come by used. If you do go new, enjoy it while it lasts, because even at only 1 year, my "new" boat already has some scrapes, nicks, and dings, from regular use. But at least each of them has a nice little back story!

-Mike

[thataway]

Mike's comments provoked me to make another comment. Some of the boats which cosmetically look "worked", actually can be made to look like new again. It is the "bones"--Balsa core, and engine, which are probably the most important.

I happent to prefer the wood interior--some will prefer the molded fiberglass. There are advantages of both. But this may factor in your decision.

Some like the "Barber" sliding forward seat. We don't--because my Admiral Marie prefers to sit aft, and there is more storage under the table floor and under the forward dinette seat, which we do like. So little details like this may make a difference.

[westward]

"Thoughts? Am I throwing my money away with a new boat?"

Yes you are. You're also throwing it away with a used boat. If you have the time to be diligent you can be way less financially reckless buying used, but don't start using words like "investment". The investment is in your boating enjoyment, and it will cost you dearly. (Anyone else out there been eating $500 salmon that you caught yourself? ) $80k is surprisingly hard to save but surprisingly easy to spend these days

[haliman]

[johnr]

As others have already said, if money is not an issue, then why not buy new if that's what you want to do? I made a promise to myself long ago to never go into any kind debt because of a recreational boat, no boat loan, no credit cards...cash on the barrelhead only...so, for me, that means I will not be buying any $80,000 c-dorys right now! YMMV.