c-22 handling characteristics

[qboat]

I am hoping to get some advice from all the experience on this forum. What are the handling shortcomings/quirks of the 22? I have been fortunate to run a number of boats, but not a c-dory. The most similar were three: a St. Pierre dory with a heavy one-cylinder Sabb diesel in the bilge--superb sea boat but would not come close to planing so doesn't tell me much about a planing dory; 2) a home-built Bolger Topaz--similar bottom to the C-dory with a v in front, flat most of the bottom. Planed great but beat me up running into a chop and, with its near vertical sides, not confidence-inspiring in a cross sea, 3) 23' lobster boat, outboard with round chines, nice boat but squirrelly in a following sea.
Any insight into what to expect from the 22? I am guessing with all the flare good sea boat in anything, including a beam sea, at displacement speed, but a slammer at speed in a chop. But I would love to be educated before I buy one. Thanks! Sam

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Sam, with a CDory, you slow down in the chop. Getting the bow down with trim tabs and/or a Permatrim plate makes a huge difference. The boat will plane around 9mph if lightly loaded. Over 30mph feels squirrelly to me. The boat handles sloppy offshore conditions far better than me.

[SEA3PO]

I have trim tabs and Permatrim on both motors...it makes a huge difference...makes the boat handle well..

[thataway]

The St. Pierre is a true dory, displacement speed--and the Saab engine is a great match.

Your observations on the other boats are correct.

The C Dory is a modified semi dory, with more deadrise forward. But Aft dead rise is only a couple degrees--so in certain conditions the boat will pound--especially in short steep chop. For an example, during a month in Alaska, We only sat out two days--both times 80 footers were not moving. But the C Dory is a bit different than many other boats, and you have to learn to drive it in those conditions. There are going to be times you will go slowly and it will throw spray-as with the trim tabs and engine forcing the bow down into the chop.

In my opinion the C Dory handles the down wind/seas very well. We have run down wind/seas in Johnstone Straight, with 35 to 40 knots of wind against current in seas up to 10 feet down wind--and done fine...a bit of work.. but always safe.
Much better ride than a semi displacement vessel. Get a ride in one before you buy. They will plane at very low speeds, which makes them very efficient.

[Kushtaka]

One thing that seems to get people their first couple times is that, if you are at a slower plane, with your motor trimmed way down (trim tabs don't seem to matter) and you turn and lose speed causing you to come slightly off step the boat will change it's list from leaning inside to outside.

I did this on my boat the first time I ran it, and the second spring, I forgot and did it again. My wife has done it a couple times, and a buddy of mine, who is very experienced, also did it the first time he ran my boat.

I don't feel like it was going to roll or broach, but loose stuff did hit the deck on some of these occasions.

Bow down into chop helps a ton.

Bow up in following seas, AND bow up for running up and down swells, regardless of whether you are running with or against the swells.

If you are compensating for an unbalanced side to side load with your trim tabs, and someone moves from one side to the other, it will have a much more dramatic effect than if the same person moves the same way with a balanced load.

The boat will plane at very low speeds making them super seaworthy in nasty conditions when all the boats are slowing down. A big deep V going 8kt has its bow stuck in the air, and is taking waves much farther back than it should, and doesn't respond well to the helm or the throttle. A C Dory, on the other hand, is happily planing along, sufing big waves, on step, with the motor barely working, and nimbly responding to throttle and helm.

Otherwise, the low spot is amidships (that's why there's a bilge pump there!).

[ghone]

What the others said. Kerri On has run upwind in 35 knots of wind and seas 8 ft plus because I crossed to Port McNiel from Pierres ahead of a day that predicted 50 knots. Safe yes. Comfy not really. Downwind in seas only to 5' and abeam to 5'. I tell you what, I'm happy I'm running my c Dory in those conditions! We try to miss wind like every power boater but if it shows we aren't worried. 2-3 ft chop upwind is where you keep the bow down and speed just on plane. Weave around bigger waves. We make good time upwind in weather even better than many bigger boats that start to roll around. The motion of the c Dory is quick in roll and the centre of gravity is low. Not many boats compare all around.
George.

[anchorout]

I have been in some sloppy stuff and my boat handled well, as I would expect. Yes, you have to slow down to match conditions.

The problem I still have is at idle speed in close quarters. With no keel and a flat bottom, it behaves like a leaf on a pond. In any kind of wind, things really get interesting. You best think ahead and have a plan when coming along side the quay.

Having said that, it's still my favorite boat.

[hardee]

[qboat]

Thanks for all replies--this group has ton of knowledge and is willing to share, which I much appreciate. Sounds like a C-dory can take a lot more than I can. Bob,if you are interested, I see my old St. Pierre dory is for sale again--she has a dry stack exhaust--run her in the Panhandle and they will hear the thunk-thunk of that one cyl. Saab down in Cedar Key. And you can start her with a hand crank!

[thataway]

I had the 2 cyl brother to that one lung Saab in the 38 footer we built. 18 hp with controllable pitch prop would push the boat easily at 6 knots. Too old to be hand cranking engines however.. They say that one of the original one cyl Saabs Was taking out of a fishing boat after over 60 years of use, sits on a mount in front of the factory, and the President starts it by hand every Monday morning.

[qboat]

Is there a noticeable handling difference with the small extra weight of the hightop model, up on top? I am 6'2", so this is a close call. Also, has anybody run smarttabs on the 22 boat? I have had good luck with them on a similar sized lobster boat hull, as long as they were rigged to be raised running down sea. Finally, with trim tabs in place, is a permatrim still desirable? Thanks. Sam

[thataway]

The high top will not be an issue in handling. Many of us put inflatable dinghies or kayaks up on the roof. It is not only weight but also windage which might make a difference.

I am (was) 6'2", and feel the low top is adequate--the problem is the door--which you have to duck for in either case.

No smart tabs are not recommended in a c Dory. You need the control side to side as well as vary the amount of bow down/ bow up, for best ride in different conditions.

Yes I believe that the Permatrim is necessary to get the best ride out of a C dory 22 and 25. I have owned the 22 without and then with--a world of difference. Be fore I added a Permatrim to my 25, I had only the trim tabs. Again, it made a definite difference.

[colbysmith]

I've got trim tabs on my 22, and they are used frequently. I don't think I'd want to run one without them. I also installed a Permatrim last year, and it greatly improved the boat characteristics by helping to keep the bow down lower. Colby