Best choice for "Get Home" kicker for 25 cruiser?

[Snowday]

I am new to this site and new to C-dory's. But I am a licensed captain and a former live aboard sailor. I have a 25 cruiser with an aging Honda 130. I would like to stay with the one main engine set up, but I want the security of a get home engine in case this older Honda surprises me. I do not know how to search this site for previous discussions on this subject. It needs to work in rough conditions, so are we talking the long shaft? I already have one of those common mounting brackets. Do you spring for the electric start and the tilt and all that? I think I prefer a manual start in case the problem with the boat is electrical. but I think I want to link it to the main steering. It needs to be powerful enough to get me home in rough conditions or high winds. I am thinking a 15 hp. I don't want to get a motor that does not like the high work load, or will spin its prop under the pressure of a bigger and heavier boat like this. I don't necessarily need throttle controls at the helm. Thanks for all your advice. Cheers, Todd

[thataway]

Todd, all of the electric start models also have manual start. There is very little difference between the 9.9 and 15 hp models. However what every you get, I would suggest at least an 8 HP and "big foot-high Torque" which means it swings a larger prop, lower ratio gear case, and lower pitch prop) You should not expect more than 5 to 6 knots in rough conditions--and perhaps less trying to beat into a nasty slop--a "Kicker" is a get to safety motor. Even a 25 hp, with the standard prop is not going to do all that much better than an 8 to 9.9 hp with the larger prop. Some electric start have a small alternator, which may be an advantage. Also I strongly suggest a separate tank--since most of motor problems are fuel related. We used a 2.5 hp Suzuki 4 stroke, and a Merc. 3.5 HP 2 stroke on our 25 as both our dinghy motor and kicker. Would push the boat easily at 3 knots..

I had the 130 on the 25 I owned,---it was a great engine, but definitely a little less power than I desired when the boat was loaded for months long cruises. On the other hand, I tell the story, that my father had a hard chin, fin keel 26 foot sailboat, heavier than the C Dory 25, and very similar lines--he had a 1932 5 hp Johnson set in a well in front of the transom. When that gave out ion the 50's, and parts not available he got a nice 9.9 hp--it was not as good as the older 5 hp, with the big prop. We got 5 to 6 knots cruising speed. I had a Cat. 27 at one time, with a 15 hp--no faster than using a 9.9.

Welcome aboard.

[Kushtaka]

There are a number of smaller kickers configured to swing a larger prop. Yamaha markets these as hi thrust. Because a prop is much a like a car, such that in any given gear, a given RPM will give only one speed. When you use a small kicker meant to push a small boat quickly, you will either spin the prop or lug the engine pusing your 25 at full thottle (depending on if your prop spins (cavitates) or grabs.

So if you get a kicker with a larger, finer prop, you will maximize it's pushworthiness on your 25.

[dkbnjmn]

I will second Thataway (but of course), with the following minor addenda.
1. I want a kicker completely isolated from main engine (a Honda 90 on my Cruiser 22), both electrical and fuel. So I have a manual start with a separate fuel tank.
2. I actually have two fuel tanks for kicker--3 gals for putzing around home waters, and 6 gals for longer trips. I fill up appropriate tank with known-to-be-safe ethanol-free and a big dose of StarTron (other additives obviously fine). At regular intervals, if I don't use the fuel, I dump it in my truck and refill.
3. Because I am only a 22, not a 25, I have only a Yamaha 8 (rather than larger), with big foot, long shaft. I considered other sizes, but trade-off of torque/cost led me here. Other outcomes may work for you, but shaft length and prop size are important in a seaway to reduce excessive rpms and keep power coming. (I spend a lot of time on Chesapeake and in Florida Bay, so I see a lot of chop.)
4. When I run my kicker periodically to keep it healthy, I leave Honda 90 down (NOT running) in the water and steer from regular helm station. Turning radius is large of course, and precision is low, but there is enough rudder in lower unit of Honda to keep me moving where I want to go, and I am out of the weather, seated comfortably, with good visibility and instruments. Then, when making a landing, I move back to the cockpit to access kicker directly, because I want precision in steering and control over power.
5. The 8 will power my 22 at hull speed, and I would expect nothing more under almost any conditions without a huge HP bump.
Good luck--I hope you'll share your experience with us.
Dan

[Snowday]

My 25 came with a bracket- one of those that is spring loaded and raises and lowers the kicker. It seems to me there is no point in this thing if I am getting new 25" extra long shaft- I could just mount that to the transom? Thanks for all your advice.

[thataway]

[breausaw]

I have Mercury 9.9 kicker that sets on the transom next to it 150hp big brother. The kicker tilts up and out of the water just fine.

Kicker has power tilt and electric starart, makes it real nice. Everyone said I would need a kicker bracket, totally proved them wrong.

Not to say this set up will work on your boat, it's just an option you may consider.

At about 3/4 throttle I get about 5 to 5.5 mph.

With snap on connector rod can steer from cabin and use auto pilot.

Have large transum mounted transducers both sides and trim tabs, still made it fit.

The merc kicker has straps that lock the motor centered when tilted up, another nice feature.

[journey on]

Journey On has a Honda 9.9 as a get-me-home motor. That's the only 4 stroke I can comment on, so I will.

First, most small outboards have one block size and weight for the 8/9.9 and go to a bigger block/size/weight for the 15. This is true for at least Honda and Tohatsu. The difference in weight between a 9.9 and 15 can be up to 30 lbs. Honda is the heaviest of the lot and Tohatsu is the lightest.

It rides on a outboard bracket and is not transom mounted. That said, we do not trailer with the 9.9 mounted on the bracket because it and the bracket swings/sways too much on the road. The Honda 9.9 is the heaviest motor in it's class and a bear to lift from the ground to the bracket which we do every time we launch. It weighs ~120 lbs, because we got a deal on a electric start. It's been dependable. The only trouble with it is that I allowed the gas to stay in the motor between trips and when it evaporated, the residue plugged the carburetor. Cleaned that out and everything is OK. Needs regular oil changes because the engine is small. It has its own gas tank.

We used the Honda 9.9 once as a g-m-h and it powered Journey on at ~5 kn in fairly calm water. We got to the nearest marina in the San Juans and I fixed the 150. We also use the 9.9 to power the dinghy, hoisting the motor from Journey On to the Achilles dinghy. This way we only have the carry the two motors. Picture in my album.

Boris

[alainP]

I will second the opinion of keeping both the main and the kicker totally independent in terms of fuel and starting. Simplicity of manual start is appealing. Garelick makes a very strong spring loaded bracket that gives you 19 inches of vertical travel, that will allow you to use a short shaft motor which is preferable if you want to use it on a dinghy as well.
The Garelick bracket with a 9.8 Tohatsu 4S fits between my 150 Yamaha and the Lenco trimtabs without interference.

[localboy]

Tohatsu 9.8 with hi-thrust prop on ours. It will push the boat at hull speed; nothing more. Steering via a tie-rod between it and the main, so we could steer from inside the cabin...slowly. It is both electric start (with an alternator) and manual start if need be. I rarely troll so the engine has not had many hours. It is mounted on an alum Mini-Jacker which allows it to clear the starboard trim tab. Nothing to hold it up, centered. It rests on the stern curve of the hull and is padded via a large sponge. KISS. Had I to do it again, I'd have a custom mount made to move the engine aft about 2" more.

[nordicstallion]

I agree with Dr Bob. I use a Yamaha 9.9 high thrust for an auxiliary/get home motor mounted on the spring loaded garlick mount. Perfect!

[Aurelia]

As a former 25 owner, I would also recommend at least an 8hp twin cylinder 4 stroke for your needs. A nice 9.9 unit with alternator would be hard to resist.

The boat can be pushed with less, but if you really want to get "home" and not just to a safe spot to re-assess a problem, I think a long shaft 6hp model would be bare minimum with the larger motors being recommended.

Greg