View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20779 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
|
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Pat,
I am going to ask you the reverse question--you are going to do the loop, when the boat will be in the water for 8 months. If you don't have bottom paint,. why don't you have bottom paint? We find that in a week or so in Florida growth starts.
Most of the ICW will be salt water--with different fouling properties as you go along. If you can scrub the bottom every week or so, then you can get away without it. _________________ Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL |
|
Back to top |
|
|
hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 12632 City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
|
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Quote: | "Harvey, why oh why do you think you need bottom paint? We have never used bottom paint in 11 years, and have never observed any consequence from NOT using bottom paint. I'd love to hear your rationale here. Your boat sits on a trailer and is mostly (entirely?) cruised in cold waters at planing speed. What does bottom paint do for you other than give you something to do on the boat?" |
Hi Pat,
Two summers ago I spent about 2 months on the water, almost continuously, but there were a couple of trailer haul brakes of 2-3 days scattered in-between so there was some drying time. The longest stretch IIRC was 3 weeks in the water. I had some slime growth to clean each time I pulled, but that was it.
Last summer, I spent almost 3 months in the water. The first break was at 48 days. I had 2 inch hair, fuzz all over and barnacles the size of pencil erasers on the bottom, again in only 48 days. I have about 40 hours in cleaning the bottom, scraping the barnacles, shaving the barnacle roots that are left after the scraping, and unless I do bottom paint, a limitation of a maximum of 3 weeks in the water without getting serious bottom growth AGAIN
So, now I am looking at realistically limiting my continuous boating stretches to close to 2 weeks unless I do bottom paint. (I would much rather be spending the $$ on fuel than paint, but looking at long term plans, it seems like the paint is an investment in future boating pleasures.)
Most of my days on the water are spent at anchor, but I moved nearly every day. Some days I would only be on the move for an hour or two, some more than that. Most days, most of my moving time was at 5.5 knots or so. Every day had some time moving at planing speed, which I thought was helping to keep the bottom clean. It was either not enough moving, or not enough moving at planning speeds, or I was wrong and moving makes no difference. Time in the water == growth on the bottom.
Seriously, do you really not have bottom paint on Daydream, even with your plans for spending months on the water, warm water, mixed fresh and salt, and in sunny, warm climates. Unless you are planning to haul out and clean I would reconsider, and thing bottom paint for sure. Just guessing, but after several haul outs and hull cleaning fees, you are approaching bottom paint $$$$'s. (I thought Bitter End did bottom paint for you when you had the detailing done and prepping for the Loop.)
Harvey
SleepyC
_________________ Though in our sleep we are not conscious of our activity or surroundings, we should not, in our wakefulness, be unconscious of our sleep. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Pat Anderson
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 8551 City/Region: Birch Bay, WA
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Daydream
Photos: Daydream and Crabby Lou
|
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Bitter End did not do bottom paint, but I may inquire about it...wouldn't even consider it for our cruising here but we are headed for the Loop, so that may change my thinking, _________________
DAYDREAM - CD25 Cruiser
CRABBY LOU - CD16 Angler (sold 2020)
Pat & Patty Anderson, C-Brat #62!
http://daydreamsloop.blogspot.com
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Pat Anderson
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 8551 City/Region: Birch Bay, WA
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Daydream
Photos: Daydream and Crabby Lou
|
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
thataway wrote: | Pat,
I am going to ask you the reverse question--you are going to do the loop, when the boat will be in the water for 8 months. If you don't have bottom paint,. why don't you have bottom paint? We find that in a week or so in Florida growth starts.
Most of the ICW will be salt water--with different fouling properties as you go along. If you can scrub the bottom every week or so, then you can get away without it. |
I quite possibly could scrub the bottom every week or so, and I may have to. If the bottom paint topic had come up in October or November, Jesse at Bitter End Boatworks probably could have easily worked me in. Coming up at this juncture, he may not be able to, but I do have a call into him.
The longest Daydream has been in the water was six weeks in 2006, when I cruised it to Ketchikan and then a friend of ours and a friend of his cruised it back to Blaine. That was all salt water. There was zero growth on the bottom, but of course it was cold water.
While I was typing this, Jesse called back, and he can work me in before we leave for Florida. Three coats of epoxy and bottom paint at $105 a foot, $2,600 for the job. Much cheaper for subsequent bottom paint. Our philosophy is "It is only money," and I sure do not want to ruin Daydream's bottom.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
PaulNBriannaLynn
Joined: 26 Oct 2012 Posts: 757 City/Region: Fort White
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: TBD
Photos: Lorelei
|
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Our c-dory would get the flat round barnacles after two months in the water in Everett, plus yellowing on the hull and rust on the trim tabs. I was planning to bottom paint if we would have stuck around and kept the boat. It was a real time consuming PITA scraping and pressure washing all that junk off.
Our new boat has ablative black bottom paint on it. It stays in the water for long periods. All it ever needs is to blast off the green slime with a quick pressure wash every couple months. If your boat is at all going to stay in the water, I cant see any downside to it.
Plus once its been done, you can touch it up yourself while its on the trailer when needed and save some bucks. _________________ 2007 22 cruiser sold 10/2021
2009 Parker 23 sold 10/2017
2003 22 cruiser sold 3/2016 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20779 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
|
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Good decision Pat. The water in the Northern part of the loop, can be cold--or it can be fairly warm--depending on the year, and body of water. But there is enough in the marine growth section to make it worth while.
The zincs became a slightly different issue. Probably OK--if you watch them. But marinas or boats occasionally are miss-wirred, and there can be stray currents from other boats. This in itself can cause issues. You will probably want different zincs on the motor as you go along--Mg for the upper part, aluminum for brackish to sea water--check with your friend.
Also have the internal zincs done if you have not already done them.
What is your plan for oil changes, and lower unit lube change? This is one area where it is actually easier with inboard engines. On our long voyages where I had to run the engine for several thousand miles--such as the run from Panama to Calif--I would stop the engine and do oil changes when at sea. Also the injector pumps on my diesel had a change interval of 50 hours--we cheated a bit on that one--and did it at 150 hours. We were running the engine almost continuously for over 25 days. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
journey on
Joined: 03 Mar 2005 Posts: 3593 City/Region: Valley Centre
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: journey on
Photos: Journey On
|
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Pat, I cruised the Great Loop in a boat with bottom paint and I still got growth. Those southern waters really promote growth. But what I really wanted to show you what happens to a bottom without any paint.
This is our dingy, which we used daily. Usually we hoisted it out at night on a spare halyard, but I got lazy. This is a weeks growth in the Chesapeake. Took an hour for 2 people scrubbing to get rid of the junk.
I just re-painted the bottom of Journey On with Pettit Hydrocoat. And we normally boat in the cold Pacific.
Boris |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Pat Anderson
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 8551 City/Region: Birch Bay, WA
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Daydream
Photos: Daydream and Crabby Lou
|
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
thataway wrote: |
What is your plan for oil changes, and lower unit lube change? This is one area where it is actually easier with inboard engines. On our long voyages where I had to run the engine for several thousand miles--such as the run from Panama to Calif--I would stop the engine and do oil changes when at sea. Also the injector pumps on my diesel had a change interval of 50 hours--we cheated a bit on that one--and did it at 150 hours. We were running the engine almost continuously for over 25 days. |
We had a fresh motor service before we left for Arizona, and I have five Honda oil filters, a water pump rebuild kit and a couple of fuel-water separator cartridges on board. Pete at West Coast Marine thought I did not need spark plugs or a thermostat, but I might check back with him before we leave. The plan is to have mechanics at marinas do all boat maintenance, including the oil change and lower unit lube, as well as zincs as needed. Apparently Derrick and Daveen had no trouble getting Grace Full serviced on their Loop. I will check with Flint Firestone though and see what his plan is. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JamesTXSD
Joined: 01 Mar 2005 Posts: 7444 City/Region: from island boy to desert dweller
State or Province: AZ
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: "Wild Blue" (sold 9/14)
Photos: Wild Blue
|
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You'll find out, Pat, as you cruise the Loop. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Saxe Point
Joined: 24 Jan 2012 Posts: 77 City/Region: Sooke
State or Province: BC
|
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
hardee wrote: | Quote: | "Harvey, why oh why do you think you need bottom paint? We have never used bottom paint in 11 years, and have never observed any consequence from NOT using bottom paint. I'd love to hear your rationale here. Your boat sits on a trailer and is mostly (entirely?) cruised in cold waters at planing speed. What does bottom paint do for you other than give you something to do on the boat?" |
Hi Pat,
Two summers ago I spent about 2 months on the water, almost continuously, but there were a couple of trailer haul brakes of 2-3 days scattered in-between so there was some drying time. The longest stretch IIRC was 3 weeks in the water. I had some slime growth to clean each time I pulled, but that was it.
Last summer, I spent almost 3 months in the water. The first break was at 48 days. I had 2 inch hair, fuzz all over and barnacles the size of pencil erasers on the bottom, again in only 48 days. I have about 40 hours in cleaning the bottom, scraping the barnacles, shaving the barnacle roots that are left after the scraping, and unless I do bottom paint, a limitation of a maximum of 3 weeks in the water without getting serious bottom growth AGAIN
So, now I am looking at realistically limiting my continuous boating stretches to close to 2 weeks unless I do bottom paint. (I would much rather be spending the $$ on fuel than paint, but looking at long term plans, it seems like the paint is an investment in future boating pleasures.)
Most of my days on the water are spent at anchor, but I moved nearly every day. Some days I would only be on the move for an hour or two, some more than that. Most days, most of my moving time was at 5.5 knots or so. Every day had some time moving at planing speed, which I thought was helping to keep the bottom clean. It was either not enough moving, or not enough moving at planning speeds, or I was wrong and moving makes no difference. Time in the water == growth on the bottom.
Seriously, do you really not have bottom paint on Daydream, even with your plans for spending months on the water, warm water, mixed fresh and salt, and in sunny, warm climates. Unless you are planning to haul out and clean I would reconsider, and thing bottom paint for sure. Just guessing, but after several haul outs and hull cleaning fees, you are approaching bottom paint $$$$'s. (I thought Bitter End did bottom paint for you when you had the detailing done and prepping for the Loop.)
Harvey
SleepyC
|
I am just across the Strait of Juan de Fuca from Hardee. I started mooring my boat [unfortunately not a C-Dory, yet] for one month two summers ago. Now I'm going to be mooring it full time because it just allows me to use and enjoy my boat so much more. I also get to avoid all the hassles at the ramp and with loading etc.
This past summer I put it in the water with no bottom paint and had to haul it out about six weeks later. Massive amounts of growth attached to the hull very quickly and it really cut my speed down very significantly and obviously hurt fuel economy in a big way as well.
The stuff was a nuisance to get off. I left the boat in the driveway on the trailer all winter. Now that it's getting warmer I am going to clean the hull, sand it, prime it and get bottom paint on. A fresh coat or even just touch-ups every couple of years is a piece of cake and usually all that is required, according to my boating and fishing friends here in Sooke.
I can't imagine anybody spending the time and/or money to struggle to keep the bottom clean when you can get bottom paint on and save so much hassle. Admittedly if you're just trailering all the time, it's certainly not necessary. But I was absolutely astonished at how much fouling attached to the hull and how quickly it happened. I can only imagine what it's like further south.
I'm going to use black Aquagard (Flexdel). Reasonably priced and seems to have good reviews. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Pat Anderson
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 8551 City/Region: Birch Bay, WA
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Daydream
Photos: Daydream and Crabby Lou
|
Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
See above.I am set up with Bitter End Boatworks for bottom paint when we get back to Washington State. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Phil Barnes
Joined: 20 Jul 2010 Posts: 126 City/Region: Colorado /San Juan Islands
State or Province: CO
C-Dory Year: 1991
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Swan-C
|
Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:07 pm Post subject: What Bottom Paint Do You Have on Your Boat |
|
|
Pat,
Jesse did a good job on our CD 22. I should have had the boat loaded and marked the water line as I didn't bring the bottom paint up quite high enough in the stern for a cruise loaded boat. The only real consequence is that I have some more elbow grease involved in cleaning the small area above the paint and below the water line at the stern. It is ok when not loaded for cruising.
The other option is to have Jesse splash the boat at the yard, mark the existing unloaded water line and bring the paint up above that mark. Helps to have full water and fuel on board to get the best water line marking that you can.
Jesse will have a recommendation for how high to bring the paint up above the unloaded water line.
We have our boat in the water for 3 months each summer in the San Juans and have found that the bottom paint has made for better fuel economy, minimal growth and a lot less work when we pull it out. We could get by for two weeks with intermittent use without growth but that was about it. One could go longer if underway each day at planing speed.
Have a GREAT time on the Great Loop! We will be watching for stories and updates periodically. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Pat Anderson
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 8551 City/Region: Birch Bay, WA
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Daydream
Photos: Daydream and Crabby Lou
|
Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:00 am Post subject: Re: What Bottom Paint Do You Have on Your Boat |
|
|
Phil Barnes wrote: | Pat,
Jesse did a good job on our CD 22. I should have had the boat loaded and marked the water line as I didn't bring the bottom paint up quite high enough in the stern for a cruise loaded boat. The only real consequence is that I have some more elbow grease involved in cleaning the small area above the paint and below the water line at the stern. It is ok when not loaded for cruising.
The other option is to have Jesse splash the boat at the yard, mark the existing unloaded water line and bring the paint up above that mark. Helps to have full water and fuel on board to get the best water line marking that you can.
Jesse will have a recommendation for how high to bring the paint up above the unloaded water line.
We have our boat in the water for 3 months each summer in the San Juans and have found that the bottom paint has made for better fuel economy, minimal growth and a lot less work when we pull it out. We could get by for two weeks with intermittent use without growth but that was about it. One could go longer if underway each day at planing speed.
Have a GREAT time on the Great Loop! We will be watching for stories and updates periodically. |
Jesse told me the price include splashing the boat to mark the waterline. I will ask him about going above the line to accommodate our actual cruising waterline.
Think we are so lucky in Bellingham to have Jesse at Bitter End and Pete at West Coast Marine, not to mention LFS and Redden!
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
journey on
Joined: 03 Mar 2005 Posts: 3593 City/Region: Valley Centre
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: journey on
Photos: Journey On
|
Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Pat, I had my Honda serviced at West Coast Marine a couple of years ago. I finally rebuilt the carb myself, though I paid them to do it.
After they service your Honda, made sure you sea trial it before you have to use it.
Boris |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Pat Anderson
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 8551 City/Region: Birch Bay, WA
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Daydream
Photos: Daydream and Crabby Lou
|
Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
journey on wrote: | Pat, I had my Honda serviced at West Coast Marine a couple of years ago. I finally rebuilt the carb myself, though I paid them to do it.
After they service your Honda, made sure you sea trial it before you have to use it.
Boris |
Boris, West Coast Marine has done all the service on Daydream for the last 11 years, even when we lived in Fall City, and we have never had any problem. YMMV obviously! A dumb question, isn't the Honda BF150 fuel injected rather than carbureted?
We now live 15 miles away, and if I ever called with a question or issue, Pete would say "Bring it in and let me take a look." |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum You cannot attach files in this forum You cannot download files in this forum
|
|