16 Angler or 16 Cruiser

[SB Steve]

Hello All! New forum member and future C-dory owner. I am seriously downsizing from a 24' radon, and I an considering either a 16 Angler or Cruiser. I am keen on one of these boats for the following reasons: I want something simpler and more economical, I want something I can keep in my garage and easily trailer, and I have always loved C-dorys and want to join the club.

In following, I am thinking about purchasing either a 16 Angler or 16 cruiser and I have some questions I am hoping the C-brats can help me out with.

Both Models:

Anchor
Where do you keep your anchors? It doesn't appear either have an anchor box. Do you drop anchor from the cockpit and then run the line up to the bow? Or do you you run your line through the hatch? Is there any other methods you folks are using?
Trim Tabs
Are the necessary? If not, are permatabs or a dolfin helpful? Or can you rely on the motor trim?

Angler 16:
Bow Compartment
How much room is in there? Can you crawl in there? Is there enough room in there for a portapotty for the girlfriend?

Cruiser 16:
V-Berth
What is the storage like under there? Is it only accessible by sliding thing underneath? Is there any access from above? It looks like from the pictures I have seen that the cushions might be one-piece. Is it hard to access storage? Are the cushions sectional?
Table
Is it sturdy? Can you sit in the passenger chair and V-berth and both access the table like a small galley table?

I am drawn to the Angler because I think it looks cleaner, more cockpit space and I like the lockable bow compartment.

I am drawn to the Cruiser because It has the portapotty, provides somewhere else for someone to sit, the dog would love it, and the storage might be more accessible.

Thank you in advance for your contributions and answers to my questions. I am sure others will arise. I have had a thing for C-dorys for 30 years. They are very uncommon in my area, but I have always wanted one. The Venture 23 is probably my dream boat more like the one I just sold but with lots of creature comforts, but I wanted to start at he beginning and work my way through the C-dory fleet!


Cheers!

[Sea Wolf]

Steve-

Great questions! I won't attempt to answer them myself, as I've never owned a 16.

However, since you mention that you want to start with a 16 and work your way up through the CD fleet, I'll make a suggestion to you:

Do all your research on the 16 Angler/Cruiser question, (there are several previous threads on just this exact subject), then before you buy a 16, look at a 22 Cruiser and see how just skipping to that boat would better solve your concerns/issues and how much time, effort, and money you'd save by just going to the next step.

The 16 is a great little boat,I just almost bought one when I finally decided handling a 22 was getting to be a bit much for me but decided to skip that step for health and other issues.

Alternately, the 22 is the "sweet spot" on all the choice curves on the graph that shows the various C-Dory models attributes including in following:

basic boat and optional features

ability to be customized to your individual needs

sea worthiness

physical manageability

utility

adaptability

initial cost/affordability

ongoing operational costs

resale demand and long term investment value

etc., etc.

This is not to knock the 16s or any of the other models, but I've been here in C-Dory Land for 19 years and can honestly say that the above conclusion is a common one that many, many, owners reach sooner or later.

Good Luck in your quest!

Joe.

[jimicliff]

I've hade a 16 cruiser 3 1/2 years now I use my boat engine 3 to 400 hrs a year. The problem with the 16 is that it looks like more than it is. I say this from traveling with another 22 for a week. I was on and off of each boat every day for a week, so i speak from actual experience. My cruiser is a single person boat, two for one night is fine if you are in love.
I launch my anchor from the cockpit because I cant get in and out of the forward hatch quick enough. If you buy a 16 I'll be happy to give you all my methods of storage sleeping cooking etc I've got it worked out my boat is tight. My 16 cruiser is a reat back pack that can carry an efficent cooler and plenty of water with a 50 hp engine. Just call if ya wanna chat 352 735 1601 I had all your questions at one time.

[jimicliff]

I've hade a 16 cruiser 3 1/2 years now I use my boat engine 3 to 400 hrs a year. The problem with the 16 is that it looks like more than it is. I say this from traveling with another 22 for a week. I was on and off of each boat every day for a week, so i speak from actual experience. My cruiser is a single person boat, two for one night is fine if you are in love.
I launch my anchor from the cockpit because I cant get in and out of the forward hatch quick enough. If you buy a 16 I'll be happy to give you all my methods of storage sleeping cooking etc I've got it worked out my boat is tight. My 16 cruiser is a reat back pack that can carry an efficent cooler and plenty of water with a 50 hp engine. Just call if ya wanna chat 352 735 1601 I had all your questions at one time.

[jennykatz]

I've owned the 22 cruiser ,and the 16 cruiser and now have the cc-23 (venture hull)What I liked about the 16 was its ease of using, trailering etc. The only problem I see for you is your from Santa Barbara Ca. right . The 16 would only be good in the pacific Ocean on very calm days and even then you would have to watch your weather like a Hawk . The 16 is a Great little boat for Lakes rivers ,estuaries BUT NOT Oceans .
Another boat to look at is the 19ft a little more free-board and a better boat for the Ocean and it will fit in your garage .
We got rid of the 16 because it was to tippy with 2 large men inside .

[Marco Flamingo]

The 16 cruiser is kind of a specialty boat. Somebody said it's like a motorized back pack. I think of it like a touring motorcycle. Can you take two people on a motorcycle? Yeah, but . . . Can you take an ice chest? I guess . . . Can you take a dog? Sure, but . . .

I've done a week at a time with my wife. It takes some planning in order to retain sufficient creature comfort on board. Not impossible. My picture album contains most of the modifications that I've made to make life aboard pleasant for a week on a boat with about the same interior space as my tow vehicle. For my efforts, I have an easily towed boat that sleeps two, has a range of +120 miles, holds gear and food for two people for a week, fishing gear, on board sanitation device, and considerably more room than John Glenn's space capsule the Friendship 7. And he went around the world non-stop 3 times!

Seriously, the CD 16 can do a lot. But for open ocean, you'd better have your sea legs and keep WX on the radio. It's the one area where the CD 16 comes up noticeably "short."

Some of issues mentioned are addressed in my photo album under "modifications." I can launch and retrieve my anchor from the pilot house. I took out the single foam V berth pad in order to access the storage under the platform and I put in a comfortable thinner pad. I have since started using backpacking pads that work even better. I put in a single 23 gallon gas tank forward to balance the boat. I tend to eliminate the need for any refrigeration. That's possible? Yes, I recall that Captain Cook went without a fridge. And Joshua Slocum. It's a sea fairing tradition that saves a lot of headaches. Many today don't realize that life without ice cubes is possible.

If I were only going on fishing day trips, I would consider the Angler, but would still prefer a Cruiser if one was available. I believe that MikeR here on C-Brats did some cruising in an Angler. Seems like wearing a hair shirt compared to the luxury afforded by the Cruiser.

Mark

[Riverjohn]

[Jazzmanic]

[hardee]

SB Steve said:

“I have had a thing for C-Dorys for 30 years. They are very uncommon in my area, but I have always wanted one. The Venture 23 is probably my dream boat more like the one I just sold but with lots of creature comforts, but I wanted to start at the beginning and work my way through the C-dory fleet!”

You can do that, and depending on your $$$$ and your age, you could have a TC255 before long. OR, you could spend 1/100 of the $$$$ for that progression and come up to Friday Harbor, San Juan Island, WA in May and do that whole progression in a day or a weekend. THEN go find the boat that is right for you.

SeaWolf Joe has some very good advice. He is very good at that, and having been around here for 19 years, is experience is of considerable value. I’m working on 10 years now, and still have a lot to learn.

I never had a CD16 but I did have a Montgomery 15 sailboat for many years, both before and after I bought my C-Dory. (The M-15 is very similar in size, stability and seaworthiness to the CD-16.) It is a backpackers dream boat BUT you still have to keep backpacking. As Mark mentioned, the CD-16 is bigger than John Glenn's space capsule the Friendship 7, and he went around the world non-stop 3 times! YUP, and he did that in 4 hours and some minutes. You could.(and I’m not advocating this), put 10 people on a CD-16, and get them from point A to point B, BUT every detail would have to be highly choreographed, like the flight of the Frendship7. That is something you could do for 4 hours, not 4 days. On the Monty15 an overnight trip meant that the cabin was stuffed for the day so you had room in the cockpit to sail, and then at night, the cabin was emptied to the cockpit so there was room to sleep. I believe it is much the same on a CD-16. There are several 16 owners here who cruise on them, and they will chime in on this for sure.

Look up Jason , “South of Heaven” and follow his threads from early on til now. He has done much of the progression you are looking at. As him if he would do it again, knowing what he does now.

The CD-22 Cruiser is easily singlehanded, adequate sized for 2 (and the dog), and almost 1/3rd more boat in every way except seaworthiness. There it is twice, moderately.

Your C-Dory is going to be an investment in your sanity. (How do I know? Cause you’ve got the bug. “…I have always loved C-Dorys and want to join the club.”), so invest in that investment. Do good research, (which you are starting here) and the find some and get on, look around, ride and decide. You will find a HUGE difference between your Radon and a CD-22 in comfort, handling and economy.

Hope that spurs you on. Follow your dream -- in big steps.

Harvey
SleepyC

[Riverjohn]

[thataway]

SB Steve. There are several C Dories in your area. 22's Tom Cat, Not sure of any 16's-the nearest I know of us C Pup, out of Marina Del Rey. There is a lot of difference between the conditions out of Marina Del Rey, and San Miguel!!! Having spent a fair amount of time in the Channel Islands, I would are very reluctant to use a C Dory16 there in anything but the calmest day.

The Radon 24 is a boat used in the channel islands commercially, and suits that weather will. It has a lot more dead rise and will run much better in the chop, and heavy seas which can be found from Conception on down to the Ventura area. Aside from large sailboats, I have also owned a Ray Hunt 18 footer, outboard powered, and run a lot of that area, in that boat for diving. But was an even deeper V than the Radon...

Try and get a ride with one of the C Brats in conditions were there is some slop, before you buy. If you were just going from Long Beach to the Isthmus at Catalina--then the 16 might be under consideration...but --for the run early in the mornings.

[SB Steve]

Wow! Thank you all for your responses! Certainly one of the aspects that draws me to C-dorys is the passion and insightfulness that their owners and the members of this forum exhibit. It is also neat to know that some of you are familiar with the area I live in, the Channel Islands and Radon boats. I'm hoping to respond as best I can to some of you individually, but perhaps I should begin by letting you know more about my boating history and where I am coming from..and once again...Thank you all for the advice.

I am turning fifty this year, and I have been without a boat for three years. I ran my Radon for almost 20 years, 6 of which commercially long-lining and crabbing. I went through 3 engines, 2 outdrives, 2 trailers and a set of fuel tanks. The 3 ton beast handled Santa Cruz and Santa Rosa islands with no qualms, but as I got older and used it less often, it became too expensive and time consuming for me to own. Three years later the boating bug has come back, and I long to get back out on the water. I knew I wanted something easier to handle and more economical to run then my radon. I was initially looking at parkers, and I knew I wanted an outboard. Then I remembered seeing C-dorys in magazines in the eighties, and I remembered how beautiful and pragmatic they seemed to me.

After doing some research, I decided I wanted to get a 22 Cruiser for all the perks it offered in a small package. I do think however that the Venture 23 would be better suited to conditions where I live and would be more Island worthy boat. Alas it is 2-3 years down the line. I am doing a lot of work on the house right now, and it won't be feasible until then. I love that Venture 23. My old boat never offered that kind of comfort and amenities. I can however fund something now that I can have a lot of fun with in the meantime. I initially was looking at the Angler 19, but I would still have to pay for a storage space for it and replace my tow vehicle (which I sold) I then thought, why not get a 16? It will fit in the garage, and my SUV will have no problems towing it. And it would be my first C-dory, which is what I was referring to tongue and cheek when I said I wanted to work through the fleet.

What I intend to use the 16 for is not for overnighters and not to go to the islands. Rather I want to use it for jetting out to the nearby kelp beds to fish for a few hours or head out to the rigs when its nice if their is a hot bite of white sea bass or maybe salmon again some year again soon or even pull a couple hoop nets for lobster on a winter evening. When the conditions are right, the ocean can get glassy and clear for some snorkeling or spearfishing. I remember how much fun I had in college on my 13' runabout. It would be a fair weather boat.

My old boat never left town on the trailer. The 16 would be a lot of fun on some of the nearby lakes. There are several within an hour or two drive. I had an aluminum boat I kept at one of the lakes just for trout fishing. The 16 would be a yacht on some of the local lakes.

So if I were to get a 16, I am still not sure if I would want an Angler or a Cruiser. The Angler is a better looking boat in my opinion and has more fishing space. The cruiser offers more creature comfort and more storage. Doggie (JRT) would love chilling in the V-berth. A video I saw of a guy in a 16 with a couple beagles brought that to mind. Having somewhere for the girlfriend to pee is important too.

Anyways I still have some of my original questions if I am to get a 16, but you all definitely give me food for thought.

@seawolf: I have seen a lot of your posts, and you have great advice. Resale and investment are important thing to consider. You would have sold me no the 22 if I wasn't sold already.

@jimmicliff and marcoflamingo: appreciate the specific advice on the 16. What do you think about an anchor tube running into the Bow space? Seen pictures of your boats and look forward to checking out some of your modifications.

@jimmykatz: I was really looking at the 19'. Dang thing won't fit in the garage. Saw pictures of Sweet 16...sweet!

@hardee and thataway: awesome you know and have visited my area! I really need to visit somewhere that has some c-dorys or attend a meetup. Fortunately for me, I am visiting my girlfriends family in Astoria in March, and I will have a couple of days in Portland where C-dorys are abundant and they have dealers. I have seen the C-dory Cat here in Santa Barbara, and I only oncesaw a Cruiser 22 in Ventura. That is about it for seeing them in real life.

On a side note: any of you ever order a C-dory new? Did you have to go through a dealer?

[Riverjohn]

Steve,
You likely already noticed Sportcraft is a dealer here in Portland. While I was there I saw a 22', 23' and even a used 16' Cdory. Definatly worth a stop.

[dotnmarty]

I'm so glad to read your last post. Your reasons for choosing a 16 footer at this time are right on. Frankly I have had both the angler and the cruiser and still can't say which I liked the best. A few specifics: most people secure the anchor in the bow roller. You can make a nice cushioned cover for a tall portapotti and keep it in the cockpit just outside the drop down canvas. If you go for the cruiser get an electric wiper so you don't have to jump up and down to use the manual. The manual handle is easily reached on the angler. The stainless bowrail is helpful when loading onto the trailer but it does take away from the "look". As to parking in the garage, our angler would fit but the cruiser, with it's higher top, wouldn't. You're right, the dog (and sleepy kids), love the cosy cushion of the cruiser. Ah, whichever you get, you're gonna love it..
PS The guys at Sportcraft are great to work with, honest and professional.

[thataway]

SB Steve,
Get in touch with Joel SEA3PO (I think his last post was on the Delta gathering. Send him an e-mail or PM. He probably has the closest 22 to your. He is a professional mariner--and will have some great feedback. Also C Pup is in LA, a 16 which goes to Catalina.