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RobLL
Joined: 05 Aug 2014 Posts: 421 City/Region: Bremerton
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
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Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:39 am Post subject: |
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thataway wrote: | Running rivers to get fuel usage is going to be a problem because of current. At low speed this can have dramatic effect on fuel consumption. |
This was dramatically seen in my summer on the Yukon. The man with a 5 horse used more gas to go up river than those with 50-100 horse power. |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20814 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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colbysmith wrote: | Just came back from our Chicago River trip. Running speeds anywhere from 5mph to 18 mph, and even a short time up at 25 mph. And while there is some current in the river, we went both ways, so I believe it's still a good average, and I'm sure with an Alaska cruise, there are tidal currents and all. Anyway, 150 statue miles, 39 gallons of fuel, so 3.8 mpg is what I figure. My boat topped off carries 42-44 gals of fuel, so that doesn't leave me with too much reserve. Colby |
Yes, there are currents, and in a slow boat, you time your passages to correspond with a current in your favor. If you do it right, you can double your range, by going slow, with the current. I am a little surprised that you 2007 only holds 42 to 44 gallons. In my 2006, after I had sucked the tanks dry with my polishing pump, I was able to put a little over 24 gallons in each tank. If course your running attitude will make some difference in the fuel pickups. Put two 5 gallon cans of fuel--cover the kicker/dinghy motor, generator, plus emergency reserve. You should be able to get 200 miles in a 22--especially working the currents. _________________ Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL |
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Marco Flamingo
Joined: 09 Jul 2015 Posts: 1155 City/Region: Seattle
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Limpet
Photos: Limpet
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Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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As to guessing about fuel consumption, you might check out the Digiflow 6710M (micro). I bought one, but before I could install it, I found a Faria fuel flow meter (now out of production) that was made for boats and fits a 2" dash hole. The Digiflow looks like generic lab equipment, but the display could be placed somewhere out of the way. Or, you could use it to get flow rates at different rpms, calculate your max efficiency, and then stash the display out of the way and just use it for accurate total fuel usage.
Not all Digiflow models are rated for fuel and the micro model is available in a variety of different fittings and metrics (liters per second, gallons per minute, etc.) All can be converted with some math, but check to see if you can find one that has your preferred measuring scheme. There is one rated for fuel with a 1/4" hose barb. Mine shipped from Taiwan through Germany for some reason. Prices are also all over the place. I paid $32 for mine. I'd like to try it, but the Faria is working and looks good at the helm.
Mark |
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colbysmith
Joined: 02 Oct 2011 Posts: 4551 City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
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Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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Actually I'd love to get the electronic transmitter for my Merc EFI 4 stroke that would allow my Garmin chart plotter to read all the fuel and tach information. |
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colbysmith
Joined: 02 Oct 2011 Posts: 4551 City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
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Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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Just bringing this thread back to life and wondering out loud if anyone else would be interesting in joining me on a trip in SE Alaska next summer? As I read thru this thread again, I realize there is a lot (A LOT) of information out there regarding boating the Inland Passage and SE Alaska. So far what it boils down to is I really want to take my boat up there next Spring, but very leery of spending a lot of time solo. (My wife would fly out to join me for 3-4 weeks, but the rest of the time I would be solo on the boat.) What I'm thinking so far is that I would just go ahead and trailer all the way to Skagway. It's only 2 days farther than Prince Rupert anyway, and then I'm not having to do any major open ocean crossings. And I enjoy the drive as well. I would plan to spend at least a month or two on the water. Somewhere around 6 weeks sounds about right for just being in SE Alaska. I really haven't formed any kind of itenerary yet. Thinking I'd plan on launching in Skagway the first day of June, then pull out 6 to 8 weeks later. Colby |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20814 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | then I'm not having to do any major open ocean crossings. |
No major ocean crossings from Prince Rupert. Not sure of what road route you would be taking. If taking BC Highway 37 (Cassiar Highway) there is the Hyder/Stewart cut off, and several nice lakes along the way. Highway 37 is narrow. Not sure it is an easy 2 day drive...but we did all of that upper area with an RV. From the Lower 48, and coming from mid USA there are many choices of highways to take if you are going all of the way up to Skegway. But probably a bit more risk to the truck with the Alcan. We had gone up to AK on the Alcan thru Dawson Creek, and came back via the Cassiar. Both were interesting, and I probably would suggest doing that. I thought the Cassiar was more scenic--the Alcan more historic.
I can sure understand that it would be a lot more fun with another C Dory. Alaska is an area to be shared--no way that Rosanne can get the entire summer off? Spend as much time as you can up there! Stay on the "inside reaches" to start with--especially if you are solo. There are always plenty of other boats around. No so going outside as Jay and Brent have done. When we went outside--from Elfin cove down to Sitka--we didn't see another recreational boat. There were a few fishing boats which we enjoyed. (Marie always had fresh cookies or bread to trade for fish, crabs etc--plus a great way to break the ice, and meet some very interesting people.) |
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colbysmith
Joined: 02 Oct 2011 Posts: 4551 City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
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Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Bob for the additional info. I thought there was at least 40 miles of open ocean crossing if going from Prince Rupert? I have driven the Alcan several times, but it's been a while. I first drove it up from Sacramento when I was stationed there in the USCG. That would have been in 1987. Drove to Fairbanks I believe, then back down to Haines to take the ferry over to my new station in Kodiak. After a year in the USCG there, I got out for the airlines, but shipped the car and flew. Then maybe 20 years ago, we took our motorhome from our home here out to Alaska. A month vacation, 9000 miles.... would have been much better to have had two months. We drove 400 miles a day, and only stopped in three or four places more than one night... Going up next summer, I'd likely go ahead and cross by Minot ND. That would be the shortest distance. I'd then stay on the Alcan until the cutoff to Skagway. Road wasn't all that bad back then, and I am assuming it's all paved now. If someone else wanted to join me and use Prince Rupert as our starting/ending point, I could still do that. But for now, Skagway just seems to be the best option. Thanks for referencing Jay and Brent's travels "outside". I like the idea of seeing other boats, particularly if I am solo. No, Rosanne can't get the whole summer off. I was thinking she'd only get a few weeks, but she did say she can work it to get about a month off. That would be great and allow her to see a lot more. I have no problem staying a bit longer due to the travel time to get there. Not always easy to plan long vacations with one spouse younger and still working, unless willing to do some solo stuff. But one thing I learned from losing my first wife at an early age, life is short. While I have the opportunity now, I may not later... This is just one of those things on my bucket list, and I may not be able to do it when Rosanne does finally retire. I think just limiting the travel to SE Alaska this time, I can probably see quite a bit in 4-8 weeks time. And even add a few more weeks on if I need or desire... Colby |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20814 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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Colby,
We'll talk about it at the Miss. gathering. But it is about 20 miles from Dundas Island lee to Duke Island Lee. You can get into Foggy bay before then. I would not really consider it "open ocean" anymore than going to Catalina is open ocean.
If you watch the weather it should be fine. We fished too late one day off the Northern tip of Duke Island, and had to fall in behind a trawler when going back toward Foggy Bay, going South in the c Dory 25--the next AM it was smooth as glass going to Prince Rupert.
The total distance is about 100 nautical miles from Prince Rupert to Ketchikan. We would stop at Dundas then Foggy Bay, and then Ketchikan in the Cal 46, doing 6 to 7 knots. Easy one day trip in the c Dory. |
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hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 12633 City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
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Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:37 am Post subject: |
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Colby, Curious, what is your usual cruising speed? Just thinking.
PM sent.
Harvey
SleepyC
_________________ Though in our sleep we are not conscious of our activity or surroundings, we should not, in our wakefulness, be unconscious of our sleep. |
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NewMoon
Joined: 21 Dec 2008 Posts: 430 City/Region: Holladay
State or Province: UT
C-Dory Year: 1991
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Cindy Sea
Photos: Cindy Sea
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Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Colby,
We are on our way across the Dixon Entrance, from Ketchikan to PR right now. This is our 30th crossing, counting both directions. 83 nm by the shortest route. Wait for the right weather and it's no big deal. Consider wind vs tidal current when you analyze the situation.
Running down Lynn Canal from Skagway can be more difficult.
Lots more detail I could offer, but not right now. _________________ Richard Cook
Dream Catcher (Nordic Tug 37, 2016 to present)
New Moon (Bounty 257, 1998 to 2016)
Cindy Sea (CD 22 Cruiser, from 1991 to 1998)
"Cruising in a Big Way" |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20814 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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My charts must be a little different than Richard's. By Navionics the straight line distance is 88 NM between Prince Rupert Yacht and Rowing club and the closest Marina in Ketchikan. Unfortunately you cannot quite go in a straight line--there are a few islands and rocks in the way... In any case, it is not a passage not to be feared--but all of the waters are to be respected. We go by Venn passage and Duncan Bay, which I believe is the shortest route. I have only done this passage 10 times, far less than Richard's 30. |
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colbysmith
Joined: 02 Oct 2011 Posts: 4551 City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
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Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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Bob & Richard, thanks again for your comments. All being considered! Harvey, I saw the PM briefly, but just now getting to catching up. I'll reply shortly. Regarding cruise speed, in a real hurry, maybe 20 mph or a tad bit more depending on how heavily I'm loaded & smooth water. Going to get somewhere, around 14-18 mph, not in a hurry around 12 mph, trawling (lol) about 6-7 mph. Bad waves, well in 6-8 footers (and not by choice) in the North Channel, I was only doing 3-4 mph. Lets not plan on that, ok? In unfamiliar shallow waters where I don't know how far things are beneath me, 6mph or less is usually my comfort speed. In all honestly, I can do whatever the others with me want to do.
To address another question in Harvey's PM, fishing. I may get a crab ring and do a little fishing, but that would be just to kill time. While I enjoy fishing, I find too many times the cost of a non-resident license doesn't usually support the lack of fish on the end of my line! Ie, I drown a lot of worms for nothing. No, this trip would be primarily for sightseeing and enjoying a cruise. Ideally there would just be 3 or 4 of us (boats) traveling together for safety and camaraderie. Of course if more join in, that's fine as well. Colby |
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hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 12633 City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
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Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:21 am Post subject: |
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Colby, I might not be able to keep up, and I probably do a lot more slow cruise (about 5 knots, with no bow wave) than you do
And it is always nice to have another boat along. Makes for better pictures as well as safety.
Harvey
SleepyC
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colbysmith
Joined: 02 Oct 2011 Posts: 4551 City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
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Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:00 am Post subject: |
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I'm ok with the slow cruise too. Especially if the scenery is beautiful. (Unless of course trying to outrun a storm!)
And photo taking is always good! Some from my last outing in Isle Royal National Park:
Tully-B and C-Otter
Midnight Flyer and Tully-B
Midnight Flyer, Tully-B and C-Otter rafted up at Hay Bay
Lee & Jan off the Tully-B and myself at the moose/wolf study camp |
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NewMoon
Joined: 21 Dec 2008 Posts: 430 City/Region: Holladay
State or Province: UT
C-Dory Year: 1991
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Cindy Sea
Photos: Cindy Sea
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Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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Crossing the Dixon Entrance between Prince Rupert and Ketchikan
We leave as soon as it's light enough to see wood on the water, and go slow at least until it's fully light. We go through Venn Passage coming out of PR - saves a lot of time, but we do need to follow the safe route carefully, especially as we round Tugwell Island heading out into Chatham Sound.
If conditions permit, we head from Venn diagonally across Chatham Sound toward Green Island, near the NE corner of Dundas Island, then across the open water to Tree Point, then sometimes to Foggy Bay for the night. If Revillagigedo Channel looks OK and I'm not too tired, we might skip Foggy Bay and head from Tree Point through Danger Passage (south of Mary Island), then between Ham and Walker islands, and on into Ketchikan. This is the shortest route, about 83 NM.
If non-trivial wind is from W or NW, we might cross Chatham Sound more quickly, come up along the east side of Dundas Island, and anchor in Brundige Inlet before crossing the most open water. If wind is from the Southeast and looks like it might be strong enough to bounce us a bit too much out in the middle of Chatham Sound, we stay along the east side of Chatham Sound, and cross the mouth of Portland Inlet. This is a longer route, but sometimes useful to protect from SE wind. There are a few places to anchor after crossing Portland Inlet, before we round Cape Fox and head up Revillagigedo Channel. Pond Bay on Duke Island is another useful anchorage along the way.
Here's how we analyze it, and decide if we're going to go. Tidal current direction vs wind direction is key.
First, the forecast should be 15 knots or less, for at least most of the duration between Prince Rupert and Ketchikan.
Second, conditions as reported at the Central Dixon Entrance buoy (Canadian WX, but also reported on US WX in Ketchikan), should be winds no more than 15 knots, seas no more than one meter.
Third, if winds are enough to pay attention to (like more than 10-12 knots), wind and tidal current directions should not be opposed when crossing the most open water, like in Chatham Sound heading up from PR, between Dundas Island and Cape Fox, or in Revillagigedo Channel up to about Mary Island. Depending on conditions, anywhere in these three areas could be challenging - wind vs current as the tide flows in and out can make seas twice as tall and much more vertical than they would be otherwise.
Sounds a little complicated, but if you're willing to wait a day or three you can usually find conditions that meet most of these criteria. On 2-3 occasions, always on the way back south, we've had to wait 5 or even 7 days . Depends somewhat on your tolerance for bouncing around. Most other places in SE AK are not as complicated to figure.
In 2017 for the first time I started using predictwind.com. It gives far more granular detailed forecasts than NOAA and Environment Canada, in more specific locations and in timing. Crossing the Dixon is a particularly good situation for it. |
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