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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20803
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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 Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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I don't run the two radios on the same frequencies. For example one will be 16. The other may scan traffic scheme/working frequency of tugs, or 68 etc.
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Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL |
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hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 12632
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:35 am Post subject: |
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I don't run my radios on the same freq either. I have 3 VHF and each one is used for a certain channel. I have at times used my handheld in scan mode, but only for listening, and then turn it off after I find the channel I want and then I would call on that channel from my SH. My Standard Horizon is the one directly in front and overhead, I use it for most conversations and it is the one I change channels on most often. If I get a call on 16 I use the ICOM to respond and ask for a switch to different working channel. (The ICOM because it is monitoring 16 for the recording feature.)
For me, using a single radio on scan seems to be to likely to miss something, ie sticking on a conversation between a couple of fishing buddies, and you could miss a Mayday call on 16.
There is also a CG requirement that if you have a VHF radio on board, it is to be on and monitoring channel 16.
Harvey
SleepyC 
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Though in our sleep we are not conscious of our activity or surroundings, we should not, in our wakefulness, be unconscious of our sleep. |
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localboy
Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 4656
City/Region: Lake Stevens via Honolulu
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: 'Au Kai (Ocean Traveler)
Photos: 'AU KAI
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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We now always monitor 16. I learned this from not doing it or watching others who obviously were not. Once we were running the Everett channel, outbound and the CG cutter Blue Shark was inbound. Ended up they were trying to enter the marina to fuel up. I watched numerous "pleasure craft" make their maneuvering a living hell, when all they had to to was call the boat and ask. We did and they requested we hold our position so they could maneuver in. We complied. Common sense. Now.
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"We can go over there...behind the 'little one'....."
Wife to her husband pointing @ us...from the bow of their 50-footer; Prideaux Haven 2013 |
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Saxe Point
Joined: 24 Jan 2012
Posts: 77
City/Region: Sooke
State or Province: BC
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| hardee wrote: |
For me, using a single radio on scan seems to be to likely to miss something, ie sticking on a conversation between a couple of fishing buddies, and you could miss a Mayday call on 16.
There is also a CG requirement that if you have a VHF radio on board, it is to be on and monitoring channel 16.
Harvey
SleepyC
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As I understand the "priority scanning" function, if you set channel 16 as a priority channel, you will absolutely never miss a call on channel 16. Even if it is somehow possible, I think the possibility is a theoretical rather than practical one. I've only used one radio, with channel 16 as a priority channel. I don't think I have ever missed a channel 16 call that was within range of my radio. Again, I'm just not sure it's even a theoretical possibility. |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20803
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Saxe Point wrote: |
As I understand the "priority scanning" function, if you set channel 16 as a priority channel, you will absolutely never miss a call on channel 16. Even if it is somehow possible, I think the possibility is a theoretical rather than practical one. I've only used one radio, with channel 16 as a priority channel. I don't think I have ever missed a channel 16 call that was within range of my radio. Again, I'm just not sure it's even a theoretical possibility. |
An example: A narrow stretch of the ICW is called "The Rock pile" Any vessel which is entering this stretch should give a "security" call on Channel 16 and Channel 13. (Channel 13 is the commercial traffic--tug to tug channel for the ICW--other areas will have different traffic scheme traffic. There are many areas like this.
I was Southbound, had a single radio, and called "security" on Channel 16, and then on 13. Exactly at the same time, a tug and tow, was North bound, and they gave a 'Security" on 13 and 16--at the same time I was transmitting. Thus neither of us knew that there was opposing traffic. If I had a second radio, I could have avoided, having to back a 62 foot ketch a few hundred yards, and then put her up against the bank, as the tug and tow went by on a slow bell--with a couple of feet clearance between the barge and my vessel.
There are many other instances, where you may be on the radio; for example on 68 talking to a friend--and there is a "mayday" on 16. You will miss that.
Even if you were just monitoring--with priority 16, you may have missed a key part of the transmission by the time the radio dropped the call it was on, and moved to 16. |
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Saxe Point
Joined: 24 Jan 2012
Posts: 77
City/Region: Sooke
State or Province: BC
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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| thataway wrote: | | Saxe Point wrote: |
As I understand the "priority scanning" function, if you set channel 16 as a priority channel, you will absolutely never miss a call on channel 16. Even if it is somehow possible, I think the possibility is a theoretical rather than practical one. I've only used one radio, with channel 16 as a priority channel. I don't think I have ever missed a channel 16 call that was within range of my radio. Again, I'm just not sure it's even a theoretical possibility. |
An example: A narrow stretch of the ICW is called "The Rock pile" Any vessel which is entering this stretch should give a "security" call on Channel 16 and Channel 13. (Channel 13 is the commercial traffic--tug to tug channel for the ICW--other areas will have different traffic scheme traffic. There are many areas like this.
I was Southbound, had a single radio, and called "security" on Channel 16, and then on 13. Exactly at the same time, a tug and tow, was North bound, and they gave a 'Security" on 13 and 16--at the same time I was transmitting. Thus neither of us knew that there was opposing traffic. If I had a second radio, I could have avoided, having to back a 62 foot ketch a few hundred yards, and then put her up against the bank, as the tug and tow went by on a slow bell--with a couple of feet clearance between the barge and my vessel.
There are many other instances, where you may be on the radio; for example on 68 talking to a friend--and there is a "mayday" on 16. You will miss that.
Even if you were just monitoring--with priority 16, you may have missed a key part of the transmission by the time the radio dropped the call it was on, and moved to 16. |
Good points. My experience is altogether different in that I never boat in that kind of proximity to other boats, let alone commercial traffic. Nor is there that much boat traffic up here, compared to other places. There's a fair bit of commercial, recreational and other traffic, but lots of room for everyone. In your conditions, it sounds like there's a lot more stuff going on.
Where I boat: http://www.ourbc.com/bc_maps/the_islands/bc_maps_strait_juan_de_fuca.htm |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20803
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:19 am Post subject: |
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| Saxe Point wrote: |
Good points. My experience is altogether different in that I never boat in that kind of proximity to other boats, let alone commercial traffic. Nor is there that much boat traffic up here, compared to other places. There's a fair bit of commercial, recreational and other traffic, but lots of room for everyone. In your conditions, it sounds like there's a lot more stuff going on.
Where I boat: http://www.ourbc.com/bc_maps/the_islands/bc_maps_strait_juan_de_fuca.htm |
Saxe Point, I believe am familiar with your area.
As I understand, you boat into the Straits of Juan de Fuca, under the control of Victoria traffic control (Channel 11). However the entire Seattle VTS co-ordinates the overall movement of vessels in this area, and the bridge to bridge, and bridge to VTS is channel 13. Some vessels (not recreational) are exempt from monitoring channel 16--when in the VTS Zone--but it is always a good idea to monitor 13 (the point being, that some vessels in the VTS, may not be monitoring 16, if you attempt to reach them--you would have to use channel 13.. The VTS instructions, (for vessels which are active in the scheme--which generally does not include C Dory size vessel, one radio with priority or dual watch will not suffice. At least dual radios are required--again not the C Dory.) During the 4 years I based my Cal 46 out of Sequim, (stored there in the winter), I would check into the VTS when in the straits or in any of the 3 control areas--for my own safety.
Here is the US Coast guard--reciprocity with Victoria traffic control manual
It is just not in narrow ICW, but areas with heavy fishing, commercial or even recreational boat traffic, where two radios come in vary handy.
Although there is not what one would consider heavy traffic in your area, there is some very critical traffic, and knowledge of their movements is advisable. This includes multiple tourism boats (whale and wildlife watching) Fishing boats, both commercial & recreational, Cruise liners, Container and tanker ships, military vessels, including nuclear subs, ferry vessels, including car and fast passenger vessels, and finally the recreational vessels.
Since most of the vessels subject to VTS also are subject to Class A AIS, having an AIS receiver also gives you a good safety margin--but still I believe the two radios would be advisable.
Be safe. |
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hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 12632
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:50 am Post subject: |
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Saxe Point said:
| Quote: | | "As I understand the "priority scanning" function, if you set channel 16 as a priority channel, you will absolutely never miss a call on channel 16. Even if it is somehow possible, I think the possibility is a theoretical rather than practical one. I've only used one radio, with channel 16 as a priority channel. I don't think I have ever missed a channel 16 call that was within range of my radio. Again, I'm just not sure it's even a theoretical possibility." |
Priority scan means the radio goes back to 16 between each channel that it scans, > 9 ->16 -> 10 ->16 -13 ->16 -> 19 ->16 ->68 ->16 -> and it continues..... IF the scan stops on another channel, it does not break away until that transmission stops. That could be 2 or 3 seconds or could be 30 or 40 seconds, before anything on 16 will be heard. That is long enough to miss a call on 16, both theoretically and practically.
(Regular scan would go through 16 after checking all the other channels in order, then back to 16 instead of 16 after each channel, so if you are using a single radio and scan function, the Priority Scan mode is by far the best choice.) If you have a handheld aboard, you can use it to monitor 16. That meets the requirement, and anything you hear on it would probably be close enough that it would be pertinent to you.
If you can't hear it, you can't know if you missed it.
I'm not that far from you, across Juan de Fuca and east a bit. It is one of the busiest, heavy commercial traffic use areas on the west coast. The average sea going ship using that corridor is 700+ feet, and moving at 18 knots or better. Some, (Victoria Clippers for instance) are cruising at 30+ knots. You are right, we generally have pretty good room, and that's nice. Enjoy it and decide what you want to do.
A personal beef that I have with using a scan mode, is if/when you respond to a call, you may wind up responding on a different channel than the call came in on.
Harvey
SleepyC
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Saxe Point
Joined: 24 Jan 2012
Posts: 77
City/Region: Sooke
State or Province: BC
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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| The Juan de Fuca Strait can be a very busy place indeed. But there is lots of room and if you are paying attention and the visibility is good, relatively easy to stay out of trouble. I bought an AIS receiver a few years back, and it is a fantastic safety aid. Although few recreational vessels have transponders, all commercial traffic does and it's those big fast ones that you really have to watch for. AIS shows their identity, speed, course and warns if we are on a collision course. All on my chart plotter. Best $300 I've spent for a safety item. |
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hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 12632
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Saxe Point wrote: | | The Juan de Fuca Strait can be a very busy place indeed. But there is lots of room and if you are paying attention and the visibility is good, relatively easy to stay out of trouble. I bought an AIS receiver a few years back, and it is a fantastic safety aid. Although few recreational vessels have transponders, all commercial traffic does and it's those big fast ones that you really have to watch for. AIS shows their identity, speed, course and warns if we are on a collision course. All on my chart plotter. Best $300 I've spent for a safety item. |
Saxe Point, Good on ya, for the AIS receiver. I wasn't going to go there in my last post , but as you know and mention, most of those big guys out there have AIS transponders and the AIS is infinitely worth it's wight in gold for determining where they are, how fast they are going and in which direction. I use mine (BTW, SleepyC does have an active AIS so if you see that on your screen, give me a shout on 16, I'll be there) all the time.
As Bob points out, there are several different channels that could be primary so only monitoring 16 might not cover the needed bases at the needed times. 16, 13, 11, 5 are all very active in our area, and using the AIS gives me the vessel name to call. 13 is limited to 1 watt, so depending on the distance I may opt for using 16 or the VTS channel for a quick call, then moving to which ever the called ship picks. I don't often call them, but in crossing the Strait, if I have a crossing situation I do confirm that they have my AIS signaled position on screen, and a radar target as well. I typically confirm if I am crossing ahead of the ship. Minimum clearance for that would be 2 miles. Anything closer and I would slow and cross aft of the ship. At those ranges, VHF 13 is preferred, and gets good response. In those cases, I would probably use the ICOM, because then I can replay their responses, in case I don't hear it quite perfect the first time by. The 2 minute record on the ICOM will replay until a second signal comes in or is transmitted over the recorded call. I love it for that.
Since you have an AIS receiver, I would highly recommend the ICOM M-506 for a second VHF fixed mount radio. (Yes I know it's a bit spendy, but the menu function is SOOOooooooo Easy, and the features are equally good.
Harvey
SleepyC
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Larry H
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 2041
City/Region: Tulalip,
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1991
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Nancy H
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MikeR
Joined: 21 Apr 2013
Posts: 474
City/Region: Mill Creek
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2016
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: MikeR
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| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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Just closing the loop on my original post with an update from this weekend's test run of the 2nd VHF addition...
Two weeks ago I installed a second VHF antenna, a Shakespeare Galaxy 5225XT. This weekend I installed the second VHF, a Standard Horizon GX5500s, which is billed as a "commercial grade" vhf. Not sure what makes it commercial, but the radio is physically larger and has oversized knobs and buttons, which is especially nice when reaching overhead in bumpy seas, as I found out Saturday afternoon.
The sound quality of the GX5500s is noticeably improved over the GX2200, which was what led me down this path to begin with (and as a side note- the sound quality complaint was proven not to have anything to do with antenna, it's just the quality of the sound that I dislike, compared to all other radios I have used in the past).
While hooking up the new radio at Twin Bridges I didn't have the right size fuse, so decided to cruise up to Anacortes and give the radio a test, talking with a friend who moors his boat there. While replenishing my fuse supply at West Marine, I asked the clerk where the NMEA cables, terminators, and T's were, with plans of also trying to connect the GX2200 to the Garmin, and he took me to the plumbing section(!) So, as usual, I left WM frustrated and grumpy.
Back at the boat I decided to begin tackling the much feared and daunting task of connecting the Garmin to the GX5500 (for DSC/MMSI) and the GX2200 (for AIS). After studying the three manuals for about an hour, I made up a couple of patch wires and using some alligator clips I connected the NMEA 0183 out wire from the Garmin to the IN of the 5500 and the Out from the 2200 to the IN on the Garmin, and to my profound amazement, upon turning everything on, there were GPS coordinates on the 5500 and AIS data on the Garmin! Now that I know it works, I will install the permanent cables and connections next time, and I won't be buying the parts from West Marine. Goodwill in Everett had everything needed for under $5.
So, my dual VHF setup now consists of the GX2200 on dedicated AIS/channel 16 duty, with the GX5500 for general listening and communications. Eventually, if prices come down, I might replace the 2200 with an AIS transceiver. But that plan might change, depending on the details of Tom's next boat show update on why everyone should hold out on upgrading to AIS!
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22' C-Dory Cruiser (2016)
16' C-Dory Angler (1989)
10' C-Dory Row Boat (1995) |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20803
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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Have you tried hooking up a quality loud speaker to the SH 2200?
The 5500 looks like a nice radio, with the alpha/numeric keyboard.
Interestingly enough the SH 2200 is labeled a "Commercial Grade".. No idea what that means. |
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hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 12632
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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Mike, Nice job with the new hook-ups. Good on ya. That 5500 is big. So that speaker is probably twice the size of the 2200, so there is some sound quality improvement right there, plus you have tone control adjustment. AND you have the AIS info on your plotter. You are gona love that.
Sounds like you are in the process of getting, or already did get, your MMSI number. If you did and have put it into your CBRAT profile, please note that you did here. I have just been doing some checking and it appears that even some folks who have MMSI and may have put it into their profiles are not showing MMSI info to site users when another member clicks on their profile.
Also, if you would, please click on my profile button and see if it shows you my MMSI number. I'm curious if you, or anyone, can see my MMSI or if it is just me.
Harvey
SleepyC
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20803
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Harvey your MMSI # is there. Mine was being erased when I hit "reset" before "submit". Mine should be there now. |
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