Why does my boat always sit lopsided ?

[SEA3PO]

I also thought...to replace the batteries with a pair of light weight batteries...as is I use West Marine Starting batteries at about 40 lb. each...80 pounds is a bunch...I bet I could reduce that weight by at least 30 lb... expensive but would help lots...(I think)......or I could go on a diet...(Last resort)


Joel
SEA3PO

[thataway]

[SEA3PO]

I think Roger King has the best idea...remove the batteries from the starboard locker and move the batteries up into the port bunk area...mine has foam in that area but I will just build a locker and put the weight up forward and on the port side (light side)

Joel
SEA3PO

[ssobol]

I was thinking about doing this. But, the amount of work to build/install battery racks and rewire the boat (and it will be heavy wire) just makes it too big a PITA to do for asthetics. I can live with a little list. More weight to the front would be nice, but there are other ways of doing that.

[hardee]

[SEA3PO]

Just realized I already have a locker....years ago I moved the porta potty to the front of the space already there, and built a bulkhead just in back of it...I used that area to carry tools and medical supplies...what I will do is just build a shelf above that and divide the area into two levels...the lower for the batteries and the upper for all the other stuff.... I will make sure I buy non-gassing batteries

...the power supply cables I will change to welding cable...(much more wires and much less resistance) Batteries Plus can find me short batteries...lotsa room in that area.

Joel
SEA3PO

[SEA3PO]

Just realized I already have a locker....years ago I moved the porta potty to the front of the space already there, and built a bulkhead just in back of it...I used that area to carry tools and medical supplies...what I will do is just build a shelf above that and divide the area into two levels...the lower for the batteries and the upper for all the other stuff.... I will make sure I buy non-gassing batteries

...the power supply cables I will change to welding cable...(much more wires and much less resistance) Batteries Plus can find me short batteries...lotsa room in that area.

Joel
SEA3PO

[SEA3PO]

OK...Got it.... I ordered two Odysse 34m batteries....I can lay them on their side, put in a removable shelf (ya don't need to service the batteries that often)
And I still have room for my first aid supplies and took kit....those I keep in two of those orange plastic sealed boxes...it will all fit....only thing I will have to do is run the battery cables..

That will remove 80 pounds from the rear port side (heavy side) and move 100 pounds forward to the bunk area....should get rid of the tilt...

Joel
SEA3PO

[Marco Flamingo]

I looked into the Smart Battery Li ion batteries and was spooked. The three Amazon reviews were 2 really bad reviews and one good one. They have a BBB rating of F and many complaints against them. Somebody traced the one 5 star Amazon review back to the owner of the Smart Battery parent company. And Smart Battery recommends that you use their proprietary charging system for marine applications (I don't know if that is required for warranty purposes).

https://www.amazon.com/SMART-BATTERY%C2%AE-100AH-Lithium-Battery/dp/B00I8UKIAG

Frustrating because the idea is good.

As to the original question, the answer is weight.

Mark

[rogerbum]

I think you just need a pretty girlfriend to sit on the light side.

[thataway]

Mark,
Thank you; Good find on the customer experience of the "Smart Battery company"--I had not investigated the company, because my suggestion was in jest, and I wanted to show the prices. (I believe that those prices are fairly representative.) NexGen has no customer reviews on Amazon... I do not believe that this customer service reflects the state of the industry.

Mastervolt is now distributing the Li Ion Fe phosphate batteries. Their chargers are designed to handle these batteries. Victron, is also distributing marine AGM batteries. Lithionics seems to be another reliable company distributing batteries.

Much of my knowledge of the lithium ion battery experience is by reading Ron Jone's RV Blogs on his 5 year use exclusively of 500 amp Li ion battery pack. Much of this was off grid, boon docking. The company "rebalanced" the battery pack each year. He recently sold his coach, and bought a new one, which came with AGM batteries from the factory.

This is why he says about Li ion batteries:

[PaulNBriannaLynn]

I solved this problem by bringing our 175 lb mastiff along on trips, if we weren't balanced I'd yell at her to lay down on the light side to balance it out. Plus the big bag of kibbles I had to bring along was easy to move from side to side.

Seriously though, why not just add more water to your water tank on the port side so it balances?

[Sunbeam]

I had a permanent list to starboard that "came with" my boat. I knew it wasn't water anywhere, because the hull was dry and my 2002 has no hidden compartments aft (bow compartment was dry). BUT, it came with a heavy kicker which was on starboard, the batteries were on starboard, the largest storage area (galley) was on starboard. It just seemed like even though I tried keeping heavy things to port.... the starboard list was still there.

I could counteract it underway with the trim tabs, but at anchor it looked sad sack, and plus my bunk listed along with the boat. Annoying!

I tackled it in stages.

1) Sold/traded heavy kicker (110#) for lighter one (45#) that suited my uses better anyway.
That took care of the list almost completely. Yay! I could even use fuel from the port tank and not have the boat go over

2) So I've been taking my time on the second stage, which is more of a multi-purpose step.

a) Larger house battery bank.
b) New house battery (anyway).
c) Re-wire boat.
d) Move house bank
e) Add charging source (solar - that part is basically done).

I' waiting until the last minute to choose the battery setup (next spring) because in the time I've been planning this Lithium batteries have gone from looking like a pie in the sky to a maybe.

I'll most likely be moving the bank forward - either to the space under the helm footrest (which is fairly close to centerline on the inboard edge), to the locker under the helm seat (if I go lithium, not suitable for a heavier bank), or to the after end of the under-V-berth space (either or both sides, depending). I could fit a lithium house battery in the lazarette, but I got tired of having my Group 31 house battery in there because it was kind of cramped (start battery will stay in there).

I've been living just fine off of two 100 watt solar panels on land, but there are a couple of "not sure's" on the boat. One is that on land I tend to gravitate to sunny places; but on the boat I might like to do the Inside Passage or some other not-aways-sunny location. Also I use plenty of electric instruments undwerway. For both of those reasons, I do want to include the engine alternator (such as it is) in the loop. Thought about just wiring instruments to start battery (and using that only underway) but it just didn't sit right with me. BUT, from what I know, lithium batteries would not like the outboard engine "quality level" of charging. At all!

So I was a little stuck there. Most lithium setups on boats that include engine charging were on larger boats where they could have an adjustable alternator, or etc. And given the cost, no way do I want to "just experiment."

But now I have heard of an installation where they are using cheap/small solar controllers in the line. It's a little bit complicated, but basically, the solar controllers allow one to adjust the voltages that the battery bank(s) see, because they are programmable, and mounted between the engine and the battery bank(s). I'm on a completely non-boat trip at the moment, but am going to study this a bit more over the winter.

I also considered the Dragonfly (IIRC), which is a Group 31 lead acid AGM type battery that uses carbon foam. Same weight as a regular AGM, but the claimed advantage is that you can discharge them much more, plus (a big plus) not charge them all the way up and they are still happy. In other words they will be content living between 20% and 80% charged. Typical AGM's hate that. However I have read of some quality control issues, and some "weeps acid" issues and I'm still not sure one Group 31 will be enough. If I'm going to have two 70# batteries anyway, I'd rather go Lifeline at this point because I know and trust them.

So if I had to buy tomorrow, it'd be Lifeline AGM. One 125 amp hour "big" Group 31 would be kind of tight on the amp hours. If I go two heavy batteries (they are 74# each), I might like one to port. In that case it might be nice to wire them in series, so as not to have yet one more big heavy jumper. Two 4CT 6 volt Lifelines would be 220 amp hours - that sounds just about right for me. However, I have one more issue: If there is a time in summer that I'm not using the boat, it's stored in a place that's a little warmer than I like to store batteries, so I like to remove them from the boat and bring them into a climate-controlled spot. Hefting two 66# batteries up from under the V-berth and off the boat... a bit tough for me. Lighter would be two Group 24's. BUT, they are 12-volt, so need two long jumpers, and they're only 160 amp hours. 56# each, so not that much lighter. Hmmm. Sure would be nice to go lithium.

Always good have boat projects to ponder over the winter, right?

Will be interested to see how you do your batteries forward. Maybe I'll get some good ideas that I can use when I finish mine!

BTW, in sizing my big wire (from start bank to house bank) I considered two main things: One, voltage drop when charging; and two, voltage drop and fusing when starting engine with house bank. I didn't have an amp clamp at that point so was not sure how many amps the engine starter drew. Reading (here, plus Yamaha's recommended cable extension size), it sounded like quite a bit more than I expected, so I made up 1/0 cables to satisfy the largest estimate (had large wire on hand so that helped). However, a friend now has an amp clamp, so I will check with that when starting the engine to see what it actually draws, and if it seems prudent I'll go to a smaller cable size (just for the weight reduction). But even with the huge/heavy cable, it's still a big weight reduction aft, and still moves weight to center from starboard (I did some math just to be sure I wasn't negating everything with the added cable!).

[SEA3PO]

I talked to a marine surveyor about using welding cable and he said no...not approved....so I looked on EBAY and found a place that is selling marine cable at a lower price than any marine outlet. The cable that was initially supplied was some pretty light stuff....think I will go up one size...to #1 or #2

Joel
SEA3PO

[Aurelia]

If you want to move just one battery (house) forward to the berth, you wouldn't need much length/thickness of cable to reach the primary house loads connections behind the helm. I added a couple of simple buss bars back there plus a switch and used the existing wiring running rearward to connect the house to the starting battery (our shore charger is back there). If you can minimize the loads to the starting battery (ideally just the motor) and use a switch or VSR type device to isolate the house/start batteries, the need for big/long cables is really minimal.

You simply avoid big loads far away from the source. Big house loads go forward to the house power while engine starting comes from the rear battery. This way, the connecting wire between the sets can be smaller gauge if you switch/control that connection. If you have any other heavier power needs at the rear of the boat, they would need to be considered for connection to the start battery directly such as the bilge pump.

I did this with two house batteries up front and one start in the stern next to the bilge. It helped balance our boat out front to back and side to side.

Greg