Time for a new chartplotter

Rock-C · Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:01 am Post subject: Time for a new chartplotter

I need to upgrade my GPS. The Garmin 174c has served me well for the last 10-12 years. But it is obsolete, Garmin has stopped supporting it.
I'm considering a Garmin 547xs. Anyone have experience with this unit ? Comments welcome, good or bad. Thanks

tsturm · Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:18 pm Post subject: Re: Time for a new chartplotter

thataway · Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:12 pm Post subject:

Thru the years I have owned almost every brand. I revisited all of them, talking to technical reps about a year and a half ago at a large boat show.

During the last year, I have run boats with Lawrence, Navman, Hummingbird, RayMarine, as well as my own Garmin.

There are some fantastic new features. Garmin is the way I went with upgrades this last year, both for myself, and for my son's boat. They are the easiest to use. Support is as good as any.

I would agree with the advice to go to at least 7". The reason is that the 741sx screen in half is almost as big as the 5" looking forward, and you can have both the sonar and chart plotter on the screen at once. There are all sorts of new Sonar advances, including CHIRP, side scan and down scan which are available with this unit. If you should choose to add Radar--you can.

I have relegated my 540 to only AIS.

Sunbeam · Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 2:38 pm Post subject:

I'm going to be reading this thread with interest. My boat came with a Garmin 2006c, which was fine, but as you found, cards no longer made, getting long in the tooth, etc.

I was having some associated depth sounder issues just before a cruise, and needed to do something; so I studied up (at that time) and for various reasons (then, mid-2014) went with a Raymarine chart plotter and depth sounder (A98, if I remember correctly).

No particular complaints, but now I'd like to add RADAR, and from the reading I've done so far (various websites, Panbo, etc.), it sounds like there are lots of good things happening (and more to come). Broadband, Doppler, etc.

I find myself wanting to "re-research" now, rather than blindly adding Raymarine radar to the Raymarine plotter just because I have it. It's a big enough "suite" sort of decision, that if I decided another RADAR/system was the way to go, I'd rather sell the Raymarine A98 and start fresh than just go Raymarine because I already started down that path (of course if the Raymarine turned out to be my choice, that's fine too). So I'm open to all of the manufacturers, with an eye to the complete system (especially radar).

Anyway, that's a synopsis of why I'm reading along with keen interest. If I upgrade/change, it'll likely be this winter.

Aurelia · Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:31 pm Post subject:

As some of you know, I am personally a big Garmin fan but I have experience with other brands, most recently a Lowrance non-network unit ( Elite 7 Ti) configured this summer for my sister's boat and many other brands make good gear.

We used one of the last generation 5 inch Garmin units on our Lund and we were quite happy with the size and features for that boat. If I was sure I didn't want RADAR, I would still be willing to go with one of these but just barely.

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/on-the-water/fishfindergpscombos/gpsmap-547xs/prod119850.html

That one has the wireless helm app features which we really value at this point plus a decent fish finder and full featured charting.

If you think RADAR is in your future, the 7in or larger size is what you should be considering. We are really happy with our 7in Garmin and don't even think about wanting anything else.

Greg

journey on · Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:50 pm Post subject:

Well, I'll give my 2 cents. The new plotters/radar/sonars are all good. I run Lowrance because it's a low power radar, but Garmin is very good.

First, make sure the unit comes with a NMEA 2000 port. It makes hooking up separate units easier. NMEA 2000 has its own sentences and most units state what the output/input is. Costs a little more in $ and weight, but it's worth it. And, BTW, Greg, a 7" Lowrance Elite Ti has a NMEA2000 interface which is why I got it.

Next, buy a unit with a low power radar. The one I know of is Lowrance, but I'm sure that Garmin, et al. have them now. I'd go 7" on the display and get radar, it's a great safety device.

Also, I separated my sonar and navigation into 2 separate 7" units. Works out well. I still have a 7" navigation screen, which is the smallest that I'm comfortable with, and a separate screen 7" for Judy to play with. Those 7" screens are cheap. And with a separate depth sounder display, a lot of advanced goodies are offered. My nav screen has the depth via NMEA2000, just a number, the other screen shows the detail. If you try a split screen display, it becomes too small on 7".

My Lowrance can display both Navioncs and C-Map. Get a unit which is flexible in it's chart reading. Since we were inland a lot of the summer, I depended on the pre-loaded charts to give me data on the Sacramento River and the Delta. Depends an where you cruise, but a choice of data isn't bad. Lowrance charts worked on on Lake Powell, too.

Get a navigation screen on which you can overlay radar. Then you have a chance of identifying that blip, because if it's a nav aid or land it'll be both on radar and on the chart. If it's not on the chart it's something you can worry about.

7" is the smallest you want to go. I've used 7" on the C-Dory for years and come to the conclusion the bigger costs more money then it's worth and smaller doesn't show the detail and didn't have the features.

Finally, either Garmin or Lowrance radar can be overlaid on OpenCpn with your PC. May not be important now, but it's there for the future.

But really, it's what makes you comfortable.

Boris

MikeR · Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:35 am Post subject:

Some great recommendations above. Your original question was about the GPSMAP 547xs. It looks like a great model in the 5" size, and I've recently been tempted by the $429 GPSMAP 547 (non "xs") model simply as a secondary display on my 22, and for adding the wireless functionality with an ipad.

Another one to consider for about the same price of the 574xs, if you don't need radar, touch screen, or wireless, is the Echomap 94 series. The 9" screen is slightly larger than the 7 and 8" models in the GPSMAP series, and costs quite a bit less than the GPSMAP. The next size up in the GPSMAP is 10" which is not as wide of a format as the 7, 8, an 9, and so it stands taller. I'm really liking the 9" size because it is about as large as you can get without reducing your view through the windshield (there are some photos in my album here if you want an idea on the size). Although the Echomap is heavy on the fishfinder features, I'm using mine almost exclusively as a GPS (with depth displaying numerically in the corner). Really liking the 9" display size for the chart.

-Mike

hardee · Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:16 pm Post subject:

Terry,

Good to see you here. Looking forward to seeing you on the water this summer too.

Boating in the PNW is great, but one thing you can count on is the unpredictability of the weather. For that reason alone, I think radar is an essential safety adjunct, especially here in the PNW. On crossing Juan de Fuca, I have seen the conditions go from clear, unlimited visibility, to 100 foot viz within less than 5 minutes, just about half way across, so on shipping lane to cross no matter which way I go, and narrow entry through Cattle Pass or back into Sequim Bay.

My radar has been a life saver, three times for myself, and once for some kayakers in front of me. For me, if the boat is moving, the radar is on.

I am also a fan of a fair amount of screen acreage. Size does matter. My RayMarine is a C-120, that equals 12 inches, but I usually run a split screen, so I have two 6x8 inch charts, one with radar overlay on. The RayMarine is probably not a low power unit, but it is rarely on unless the engines are running. (I have used it for night time anchor checks rarely, and the sounder as well.) The low power radar would be a less important, than screen size for me.

I have admittedly drooled over some of the new sounder displays, and would love one with those cool bottom pictures, not for fishing but for rock spotting and anchoring, but I am suffering from dash space on a 22. I like having everything on one screen, but know that there are some disadvantages to that as well.

Back to your Question, I don't think you can go wrong with Garmin, although from what I have heard and seen, the newer, RayMarine, since they have joined with FLIR, have been pretty strong too.

Best in your decisions.

Harvey
SleepyC Moon

thataway · Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:19 pm Post subject:

I'll make lite of this--since Boris is a rocket scientist....My good friend just bought a C Dory 22. Today he called me about a Lawrence device: "Its written in Chinese"

My response, OK, you can download the manual on the internet in English"

His comment: "No, it is in english, but it seems like Chinese as you try and figure out the menu".

I think Lawrence makes great products, and I had two boats which only had Lawrence products. But the problem for many is the complexity of the menu.

I had gone back and forth about their Radar--the low power does not factor in for me personally, because they all are relatively low power--and I don't see a medical issue. The ability to discriminate between two objects which are close together is done in one of two ways: One is to have a very wide scanner--such as 4 to 6 feet in width. The other way, is with digital radar. Today the Garmin xHD is a digital radar which is very close to the discrimination of the Lawrence/Simrad, but it also has far better distance capability. RayMarine and Furuno also have digital radars which are excellent. A lot boils down to what is easiest for you to use.

Most all of the new chart plotters have 10 HZ (that is the GPS is updated 10 x per second. This is good enough for overlay, without an expensive gyrated compass.

Plus they all have GLONASS (Russian GPS), which improves the accuracy.

I have played with overlay and non overlay, with my current Radar. Please bear in mind, I have thousands of hours watching radar, and have been doing both plotting and mental overlay for years. For me, overlay is a distraction. I form the overlay in my head.

When you buy radar (also just using the chart plotter), use it all of the time, at least at first. Learn to identify objects--not just the buoys, but banks, other boats, lobster pots, birds etc (if visible). Play with the tuning. You should be able to do better than the "auto tune". Build confidence so you can rely on the radar and your interpretation when it is dark or foggy.

One final comment on range. I "usually" run on 3 to 6 mile range. Coming into a harbor, or closing with a target, I like to come down in range. Yesterday, when I was sea trailing a boat for a friend, I went down to 1/8 mile, to see how accurate it was. However, Don't assume that all boats are going 5 knots. If a sport fisher, or cruise ship is moving at 25 knots, and you are moving at 5 knots, your closing speed is 30 knots. That means that each minute you close at 1/2 mile. In 6 minutes you have closed that 3 mile range. Hopefully your AIS alarmed before then! Which leads to a feature present in some of the new radars--that is dual ranges can be displayed on the same plotter. For example, I might have one side of my 10" screen set at 1 mile, and the other side set at 6 miles. This gives me 12 minutes to contact the fast approaching dangerous vessel, and allows both of us to take evasive maneuvers to decrease the potential of a collision.

We have been talking about the dangers of running an inlet in rough conditions. The reality is that you have a greater chance of being run down by another vessel than rolling your C Dory. Fortunately the C Dory can be very fast, and get out of the way if necessary...

gulfcoast john · Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 7:15 pm Post subject:

As always, I'm listening to and learning from Bob's experiences.
I'm with Harvey in liking my MFD screens big...I feel like like I can decipher what's going on 5 times faster on the 12 inch Garmin as opposed to the 7 inch 741. I don't buy the bleeding edge; that non-touchscreen 12" was 2007 technology and was only $2100 (orig $5500) on clearance in 2013. Pro-rated over 5-7 years, the difference in cost per year over a 740 ($800 on sale) is not that huge. I was just lusting over a Garmin 8212 12" touchscreen on clearance at BOEMARINE at boat show price of $2060 delivered, so it wasn't a fluke.
If I can devise a mounting solution (with a pivoting RAM mount) you can too. We take it down and swing the mount out of the way when not in use (2 quick connectors and 2 bail mount knobs, 3 min total).
This forum is great for sharing experiences and the pros and cons of a multitude of options. I just couldn't let Harvey think he was alone in being an outlier on the subject of The Ideal Size MFD Screen.
Happy Deciding!
John

journey on · Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:28 am Post subject:

Ok, here's a further bit of discussion. And I don't want to argue with Bob, since he's a medical doctor. And has a lot of experience on boats, more than I. So this is sort of a monologue. Note that everything I say is my opinion with a few facts thrown in. If you disagree, so be it. Being an engineer, I'm used to that. I'm also used to being right a lot.

First one of the best reasons for getting a low power radar is that they offer better performance at the distances Bob mentions (1/8 to 8 miles). The low power radars I'm referring to send out a radar frequency which increases in time, a swept frequency as opposed to a big burst at the same frequency. Then they correlate this swept frequency output with the same swept return over a longer time period, still in microseconds. Thus at closer range (<12 mni.) they offer superior performance. The Garmin 24 HD is a good radar but uses a traditional radar with a big pulse. I think that Garmin, Furuno, RayMarine have brought out some type of low power radar, presumable for the better discrimination that's offered so I'm not arguing for a particular brand.

Note that if your radar is mounted 8' above sea level the horizon view for another 8' tall boat is 9 mi. Radar, because of the frequency is line of sight, can't see over the horizon. So an outer range of 12 nmi makes sense. When you're in fog, you need less that that.

I don't know about the medical issues, but I've seen enough cases of radar exposure that I don't want to be a victim. When I had a high power big bang radar mounted on the boat, it was on top of a forward mounted radar arch. That way the big bang radiation was in front of and in back of the cockpit and not on the grandchildern. It says it puts out 4 kw, that's a lot.

Each individual is different, and I prefer a direct radar overlay on the chart. If all other things are equal, go with the overlay. Last time we were in fog. in Watmough Bay, Lopez Isle, and wanted to go to Anacortes, trying to transfer the radar image from one display to a PC display was a bear. And if you're looking outside, steering and someone else is looking at the chart, well, good luck. Again, your choice.

Size of screen depends on your pocket book. It's whatever you can afford and bigger is certainly better. The smallest is certainly 7". If you're going bigger, think about setting up a dedicated PC running Coastal Explorer or OpenCpn. The C-Dory cockpit is a good place to keep a PC, dry and warm. That would give you a big screen at a low price, equivalent to a 7" dedicated unit. Pat Anderson did it, see his posts.

Again, everyone buys their own electronics. I've offered a few suggestions to consider. If you disagree, that's your right.

Boris

Boris

Rock-C · Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:15 am Post subject:

Thank you all for the great input. I should note I have a Furuno radar (thank you Peter). Like the great single vs twins controversies, I'm on the side of standalone components vs bundled electronics. If there is a failure of one component, hopefully the other aids to navigation will get you through. Im a strong believer of ths KISS principle. A 7 inch display would be nice but the smaller footprint has served me well. As i said, these are aids to navigation, I don't want to be driving around in a flooting electronics store. The addition of autopilot seems like a better use of limited funds. All this is in preparation for a trip north, if everything falls into place. Thanks again for the input.

Jazzmanic · Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:24 pm Post subject:

Hi Terry, it's great to see you on the site.

I have both a newer Lowrance HDS-7 gen 2 and a new Garmin 741xs. Having used both units side-by-side, I have to say I think I like the Lowrance better. I like the Navionics mapping better than the Garmin and even though I have the fancy CHIRP sounder, I don't see a big difference in fish finding. Maybe I need to fine tune it. As Greg mentioned, the Garmin Helm app is kinda cool.

So even though I think both companies make good products, I think you might want to look at the Lowrance HDS-5 units. They're usually sold at a very good price online.

Good luck in your search and let us know when you'll be coming up north.

Peter

SENSEI · Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:30 pm Post subject:

the 95 angler that I just purchased has 1995 Lowrance electronics and I am going to replace them. I like a stand alone radar and a combo GPS/Fishfinder. I have been studying the new Lowrance stuff and like what I see. I was thinking a HDS7 gen3 and not sure what radar I would go with. the conundrum I am in is that I have allowed a group of avid sportsmen to have the run of my farm this hunting season . one of the guys is the wash. rep for Raymarine and he has told me he will work with me for a new system for my boat at a substantial savings to me. My problem is that I know nothing about raymarine. I have looked online and some of the new equipment is pretty nice. the main thing I need is to be able to see the clouds of shrimp at 300 ft. He tells me that the new chirp will give me that definition at that depth. we will see I guess.
my old garmin 160 blue was good at seeing the shrimp but it died. I have tried a LOWRANCE ELITE 5X AND IT WAS USELESS. I now have a garmin 551 fishfinder and have tried several different transducers to no avail..
I will leave the 551 along with the old 180c garmin GPS on the Sensei when she is sold.
any one using any of the new raymarine stuff yet

thataway · Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:37 pm Post subject:

Roger,
Go for the "DEAL" if you have the rep--he will want to make sure that everything is tweaked up to full standards. I have not used the depth sounder on the newest RayMarine--but everything else seems good these days, and what I have seen on the "demo" of the depth finder is right up there.

RayMarine has been owned by FLIR for a few years, and they have done a 180 on service and quality--top shelf gear now. I would not buy it for years, because of a bad experience. From what I see and hear, that is of the past now.