Convince me, vertical or horizontal windlass.

NancyandBud

I've read a lot of posts today and still haven't found anything that would tip me in either direction.

But there must be some advantage/disadvantage of both.

Thanks in advance for your opinions. Laughing

Sunbeam · Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 7:00 pm Post subject:

Ha, as if anyone would try to "convince" anyone on something related to anchoring. That sounds dangerous Mr. Green

So I'll just say what I've done.

I've always had horizontal windlasses on previous (sail) boats. They were manual, not electric, but it made sense to me as the chain only has to go around one "wheel" and then dump straight into the locker. No changing directions multiple times.

So when I bought a windlass for my 22, I bought a horizontal one (electric, Lewmar 700 Pro). Again it makes sense to me to only have the chain make one turn.

As it turns out I haven't cruised in deep anchoring conditions yet, so I still haven't installed it, although I've made the preps for it.

I suppose the downside is that there is a big "lump" on the deck. It somewhat interferes with the fair lead to the deck cleat (I'll be adding fairlead/chocks near the gunwales to ameliorate that).

With the vertical windlass, you have only a tidy little bit of hardware on deck. And maybe it doesn't affect the fair lead to the cleat (?). On the other hand, the chain has to make a more complex turn to get into the locker, and I think the vertical windlass would reduce the fall (which is already minimal) vs. the horizontal one. At times I have heard people speak of the motors failing because water can get in them (since they are below the action), but that may have been improved by now. I have never had one so can't say for sure.

For the Lewmar horizontal there is a wireless remote. I bought that after seeing how handy it was on Hunky Dory on Lake Powell. I don't know if it also works on the vertical. Probably, but just not sure. Maybe something to check if you think it sounds nifty and want to go with a vertical windlass.

Discovery · Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:49 pm Post subject:

After having two vertical windlasses, I'd go for a horizontal. I get frequent jambs on the chain/rode joint, and sometimes on just the rode. I have 65' of chain and would consider 100' or more for a TomCat to prevent the rode piling up in a heap through the opening below the windlass.

journey on · Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 9:54 pm Post subject:

Not going to "convince" you. Here's a blog on what happened to a vertical windlass: Lewmar V7 Gospel.

This is the result of an after-the-fact postmortem and needs several caveats. First I installed a V-700 whilst on a trip, replacing a V-600, not knowing why the V-600 failed. I took the old windlass apart after the trip. Second, Lewmar now manufactures the V-700 in Thailand and additionally there is a new seal design. Third, using an old rode on a new windlass isn't the best thing to do; you get slip.

Boris

Pat Anderson · Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:36 pm Post subject:

The most important thing is NOT whether your windlass is horizontal or vertical. We have had both and had problems with both. We currently have a vertical windlass, a Lewmar 700, and had problems with it jamming. No more. The secret? We went to LFS and got the CORRECT type of chain to which they spliced our existing rode. The SIZE of the chain was the same but the TYPE was not...one works in a windlass, the other does not. Now our chain / rode go through the windlass without jamming and go smoothly into the locker. It was an amazing discovery for us. You will not see this fact on any online store as far as I know, but the gal at LFS knew exactly what our problem had been and fixed it!

thataway · Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:52 pm Post subject:

Pat, the instructions for the Lewmar windlass calls for G 4 Hi Test 1/4" chain. The rode is 1/2" 3 strand or 8 plait. Many of the online sellers know this. Certainly any good store personal should know this.

The reason the horizontal works best in the C Dory is the limited amount of fall available in the anchor locker. I have had both horizontal and vertical in my ocean crossing sailboats. There we had as much as 5 feet of fall for the chain. The C Dory only has a small anchor locker. It is shallow. As the rode piles up, the fall becomes less. The horizontal axis gives a better "grip" on the chain as if falls, There is the weight of the chain. Actually the vertical can theoretically have more links in contact with the gypsy, than the horizontal, but the weight of this chain, does not keep it in contact with the vertical, as it does with the horizontal.

As you probably know--a windlass in our size boats is not for breaking out anchors, it is for taking up slack in the rode as one powers to a position over the anchor, uses the boat to break out the anchor, then pulls the rode,chain and anchor up to the bow roller.

Although you can get by with 20 to 25 feet of chain, I prefer to have 50 feet. This will allow you to have all chain (G4 HT) engaged on the sprockets of the chain gypsy as you bring up the weight of the chain and anchor. If you need anchor in more than 16 feet of water, then 20 feet will be fine.

Also the type of rope to chain splice you use, and how it is done makes a difference. I suspect that Bud already has done a thousand splices, so no problem.

ghone · Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 11:31 pm Post subject:

I spent 25 years in marine retail and wholesale sales
Vertical windlasses were known to be replaced regularly, maybe 5 years if lucky
Horizontals were multiples of that life span. The vertical pours all that bottom sand and grit right into the seal great for retailers. Not so good for customers
Kerri On has a Horizontal. Could not give me a Vertical. Other than that I have no opinion
George Laughing

journey on · Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:55 pm Post subject:

Pat, what the "type" of your chain. We got a size and type that Lewmar suggested in their V-700 installation manual. As Bob said it was G 4 Hi Test 1/4" chain, and it worked. Was yours different?

Lewmar claims that
"The V700 now comes with a gypsy able to accept both 6mm and 7mm (1/4) inch chains.
Fits calibrated chains: 6mm DIN766, 1/4" G4 or BBB, 7mm DIN766."

So which one is yours?

And, BTW, I hope the seal in the V700 works better that the seal in the V600.

Boris

Discovery · Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:54 pm Post subject:

My chain is fine. It is the right one for the windlass. It falls into the locker and spreads out. The splice, or more frequently the rode is the problem. Not enough space for the rode to spread out, so it piles up to the bottom of the opening and causes a jamb. More chain and less rode would be the best on the TomCat.

srbaum · Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:15 am Post subject:

I am also considering adding a windlass, so the information posted makes a lot of since, retaining to our shallow lockers on the 22', so horizontal is easier to drop the short distance. also, on the same note, there appears to be two brands that pop up... Lewmar and Quick. Anyone have any experience with the Quick product?

Discovery · Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:03 am Post subject:

I bought and installed a Quick vertical windlass on a 24' TomCat, but used it less than a year before trading in the boat. It seemed equal to the Lewmar vertical windlass, but that was in 2004. Memory fades.

hardee · Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:08 am Post subject:

I have a horizontal Quick 600 with 72 feet of chain and a Rocna (9k I think) that worked well all sumber, with about 60 nights on anchor. Most of my anchor nights are with chain out to the max, and anchoring in about 5 - 10 feet at low tide. With a tidal range up to 17 feet obviously the scope varies but it holds well.

I have never had a problem with the chain binding or kicking, below the deck or in retrieving the anchor even though this year I deleted the swivel from the chain to anchor connection. I have had some slippage passing from the rode to chain (thus part of my preference for stopping before the rode goes through the Gypsy. I do use a pole to knock down the chain pile as I am retrieving the anchor. That usually takes 3 or 4 times. I have not let the pile go all the way to the top.

On one section of Knight Inlet this summer (about 15 miles), due to the short spaced, tall waves I stuffed the bow well past the anchor many many times, often clear to the dog house curve. Yes, things got wet down below, but the windlass worked perfect since. In those cases, I like that the windlass body is an obstruction to the water force and breaks up the wave before it slams the dog house (curve rise in the foredeck). Guess I just like to see that wave deforming sooner rather than later.

Harvey
SleepyC Moon

Sea Wolf · Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:42 pm Post subject:

If you decide on a vertical windlass, get one with the motor mounted horizontally at the bottom of the windlass shaft, driving the vertical shaft through a worm gear.

The big problem with the less expensive/more basic Lewmar verticals is that the motor is mounted vertically directly on the bottom of the windlass shaft. Water enters both the gear case and then the motor when the shaft seals leak.

Salt water (or any water, for that matter) is the kiss of death to a windlasses' internal workings.

The horizontal mounted motor is less prone to water intrusion, and a good worm drive gear case on a better quality windlass has better seals as well.

Quality varies a great deal with windlasses in proportion to price. The bottom of the line/price point designed windlasses are a sure bet to fail early.

Joe. Teeth