Another one bites the dust - Suzuki Corrosion

[Jazzmanic]

It really pains me to say this but you can count the crew of C-Dancer as another victim of the dreaded “Suzuki Corrosion” issues suffered by owners of DF90-DF115-DF140 motors of the vintage years 2002-2007. We have a 2006 DF90 that I’ve been championing for years as being a great motor with virtually no mechanical issues or problems. NO MORE AND NOT HAPPY!  EXTREMELY DISGUSTED!!

For those not familiar with this issue, a steel plug installed on the “engine holder”, basically an exhaust pan installed just under the power head and on top of the oil pan, caused corrosion to the aluminum engine holder (and for some the aluminum oil pan) due to dissimilar metals. This corrosion is not caused by failure to flush the engine, which I have always done but is caused by exhaust. If you look on this site and others on the net, this issue has caused failures in a large number of motors of this vintage. And of course Suzuki will not stand by their product and implement a recall or any recourse because “Corrosion” is not covered by warranty, even if it was their poor engine design which caused it. Of course, they did away with the steel plug altogether in the newer engines manufactured after 2008, sealing the hole in the casting, hmmm wonder why? Apparently replacement of these defective parts effectively solves the problem but only after a huge repair bill. Google “Suzuki Corrosion” and you’ll see many similar sad tales on the net as well as well-documented threads on C-Brats, i.e. TimFlan, RogerAR, Gene&Mary etc. Thoughts of initiating a class-action suit have been swirling in my brain.

We started having idle problems when we were at Winter Harbour in July. The motor would die at idle and would not start immediately at the turn of the key as it always had. I didn’t really have time to diagnose the problem before going on our next big trip to Canada last month to Powell River. The problem got worse, dying out frequently at idle and not being able to start without throttle. I was hoping it would be an easy fix like replacement of the IAC valve which I had read about in a few websites. What’s curious is that we ran the motor very hard this past summer and of course it got us through the stressful following sea adventure in the Strait of Georgia. I was told by the mechanic that the stalling symptoms do not occur at high speeds because the exhaust is forced out at higher RPM’s. It only occurs at idle or low RPM’s when the exhaust from the leak is trapped in the cowling.

Finally after the Bellingham gathering, we brought the boat to Master Marine in Mount Vernon. They finally got a chance to look at it and lo and behold, found a hole in the oil pan, not the engine holder that many owners have experienced. Back in the spring of 2014, I successfully removed the steel plug that was the source of all these corrosion problems and replaced with an aluminum plug bought off EBay. Maybe that had something to do with the engine holder not corroding through. However, the corrosion must have already made its way down to the oil pan below because the hole is pretty big, probably quarter sized. I was hoping we dodged the bullet by successfully changing out the steel plug with the aluminum plug. Plus the boat has been meticulously cared for and serviced every year. But obviously I wasn’t successful in stemming the tide of corrosion.




So I’m being told that both the engine holder and the oil plan need to be replaced plus all the associated parts, gaskets, bolts etc. Apparently the power head was a bear to get off and took several hours. The final bill for replacing all those parts plus at least 10-20 estimated labor hours would cost more than half of what a new engine would cost. So you guessed it, I have little choice but to purchase a new engine rather than putting big $$$$ towards a 10 year old motor. Interestingly, I just reached exactly 1000 hours on the motor. So I suppose an optimist would say I got 10 years and 1000 hours on an outboard motor with maximized, hard-working usage for 11 seasons and now I get to repower with a much lighter motor, newer technology and rave reviews on the net. The pessimist in me says, “We’ll see” in terms of any problems or issues popping up with this new era of Suzuki motors. With the support of the Admiral, we chose to repower with a Suzuki DF90A, which is 75 lbs. lighter than the 2006 DF90. I looked at other motors, specifically Yamaha’s, but they are a little heavier and would require us to install new gauges and control box, another $1000. So with great reluctance and trepidation, we are biting the bullet and getting a new Suzuki. Time will tell if this was the right choice.

So a word of warning to Suzuki owners of motors of this vintage, as Pat Anderson has stated repeatedly about Wallas Stoves, “it’s not a matter of if but when” your motor will fail due to corrosion. I’m so sorry to have to admit that. So is my pocket book.

[BrentB]

I feel your pain. We have 02 Yamaha F225 with dry exhaust corrosion in mid section and oil pan leak. Over $3K to repair

Still burns my biscuits

[Pat Anderson]

Wow! I was only talking about the Wallas not Suzuki engines! What are you looking at for your next engine?

[jkidd]

Sorry to hear this. My motor is a 2007 DF-115 and it doesn't have the plug. I think all of the motor manufactures exclude corrosion. Seems like if the lawyers could prove that a manufacturing defect was the cause of the corrosion that there might be grounds for a class action suit. I wish someone would try.

[Salmon Fisher]

Hate to hear this news. Once the initial pain is over, you'll enjoy the new motor that is lighter and probably more powerful. If you don't trust the Suzuki then bite the bullet even more and get that Yamaha if you still can. That extra $1000 might be worth it if you have any doubts about Suzuki.
Things will work out for the best.

[tsturm]

I have a 2012 DF-175 I will never own another Suzuki.
Poor quality fasteners on the entire. Rust at the least hint of salt air. ( I am anal about washing / flushing after a salt run)
Very poor quality aluminum castings. (I had to do some welding on lower unit)
Back to YAMAHA for me!!!

[Jazzmanic]

As a point of clarification, this thread was not intended to trash all Suzuki outboards. Specifically just the Suzuki DF90/115/140 produced from 2002-2007 with the dissimilar metal/corrosion issue caused by the steel plug. Obviously of course, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and has their own experiences.

I may have been a little gun-shy ordering the new DF90A but deep down inside I still think Suzuki makes good motors and I've heard nothing but good reviews about the new model. Lighter, faster, better fuel economy and so far no reported issues. You're right Patrick, I'm already getting over the initial pain and am looking forward to having a brand new motor that I'm sure will last as long as my first motor did (10 years) and I'm sure many more years after that.

And no Pat, I did not say your said that about Suzuki motors.

Jody, have you taken off the side cowling in the mid-section of engine? That's where the plug was located. From what I read, the change was made in 2008 but I'm sure I could be misinformed.

Peter

[westward]

Peter: I truly feel bad for you. My sense in reading your posts over the years is that you are a maintainer and should thusly have expected much more life from your motor. What I don't get is this:

[jkidd]

Yes I have taken them off a couple of times just in case I missed something. Maybe they fixed some of the 2007s.

[Jazzmanic]

[RobLL]

A Suzuki dealer in Everett advised me that they can repair those motors if it happens, and the preventative fix may be as expensive as waiting to fix it after it breaks. And so long as I flush engine regularly the engine is likely to outlast me. Then again I am old and the engine only has 500 hours or so.

I am still a little paranoid about all of this and willing to consider the preventative fix. And like most of you irked that a generally great company would make this kind of error. It happens, but us boaters would be quite happy to spend appropriate amounts of money after five years and do a minor overhaul of the engine. But Suzuki never put out an advisory, and they did not develop an inexpensive fix. Bad.

[PaulNBriannaLynn]

Sorry to hear of the corrosion problems Peter. I know you took every precaution with that boat. Your boat was always so much cleaner than ours was in the marina.

As for corrosion issues being isolated to Suzuki, that's false. All the big 3 Japanese outboard brands, have had known corrosion issues, especially in the early to mid 2000 year range. I don't know if Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki have learned their lesson, or the newer motors are just not old enough to start showing the issues. Time will tell. I do know that Suzuki motors have an excellent reputation, as much as Yamaha and Hondas do. They're very popular down here in the SE Atlantic coast, and the corrosion talk you hear people goin on about it usually about Yamahas.

I'm going to bury my head in the sand and hope that the first years of 4-stroke outboards for these companies, they just didn't have it dialed in yet and hope that the later models don't have the same fate as their previous models.

[MikeR]

Wow Peter, so sorry to hear this! Having read all the similar issues both here and elsewhere, I'm surprised there's not already a class-action quite frankly.

If you are working with Master Marine, and don't want to give more money to Suzuki, but want your motor to match you kicker (in color at least), another option is to come over to the dark side of Merc. When the guys at Master Marine took my boat out for the test run they were surprised by the performance as it was the first CT90 they had installed on a C-dory. They thought it outperformed the Yamaha 115 on the same boat, which they have installed before. I can't offer any comparisons as this is the only 22' I've ever been on but you are welcome to a test ride if interested.

I know of at least two other C-brats who have repowered with the new Command Thrust motors, a 90 on a 22' and a 115 on a 23' (they are the same block). Just search "command thrust" here on C-brats and you'll find the same rave reviews I did when faced with same question of what to power the new boat with. And, the Black/Red/Silver trim matches my Suzuki kicker perfectly! But, since it's a relatively new design, I have to wonder what unknown similar problems we may face 10 years from now...

In any case, that's a rotten situation you are in. While it can be fun to get a new motor, you shouldn't have to be spending so much with only 1000 hours. Seems like any of the options (Yamaha or Suzuki, maybe Merc?) should be fine motors, but with your current experience with Suzuki I'd probably also be looking to spend my money with another company if I was in the same boat, even if it cost more for new gauges /controls. But, that's easily said when it's not my money, and I can certainly understand the desire to save $1000-$1500 for controls, that's no small change!

All the best,

-Mike

[localboy]

That totally sucks, Peter.

[Catman]

Sorry to hear that, Peter. It's probably a feeling like mine two years ago when my '97 Honda 50 was unbolted and stolen off the trailer in a suburban neighborhood. At 1,834 hours it was only approaching middle age. That was thousands I hadn't planned to spend, but in retrospect I was forced to replace a 17 year old motor with a new, fuel injected model that'll serve that boat for another 15 years or so. Still, it sucked.