Which gunwale mount ladder?

[Major Tom]

Hi, just got my 2005 CD22 a few weeks ago, now trying to figure out the best way to upgrade the ladder. In addition to swimming, we use a small dinghy quite a bit. I have the factory swimstep on the port side, with what I believe is the Garelick under platform 2 step.

I've read all the posts, and I'm leaning toward a gunwale ladder, rather than upgrade the factory swimstep (I'll keep that as-is, for safety reasons). The Admiral has a bad right knee, and that seems easiest for her, for both swimming and dinghy. Several people mention the Garelick folding 4 or 5 step, with the Shure-loc catches mounted port and starboard. And some mentioned West Marine's version. I can't seem to find a folding one, except this Garelick #12350, but it says it's for pontoons, and it appears as if the standoffs are too short...?
http://www.fisheriessupply.com/garelick-removable-folding-pontoon-boarding-ladder-12350

Ideally, I'd like to find a 5 step telscoping with the latches... that seems like ti would store inside better, maybe?
Any help appreciated!


Thanks!

[Gene&Mary]

We looked at the West Marine ladder and it seemed flimsy and unsafe. The diameter of the "hook" at the top was substantially deeper than the width of the gunwale so the "hook" rotated outward until the widths matched. Since the standoff was fixed to the tube, they also rotated outward which reduced the standoff distance which then reduced the room for your toe.

We're still looking. Let me know if you find anything.

[Major Tom]

Thanks for that info, and yes, all the hook ladders I've seen so far look like they'd slip a lot and not provide solid footing. I think the CD22 definitely needs the kind with the keyhole latches, and long enough standoffs for the tapered planked hull.

Will definitely post when I find something that works well. Thanks!

[Major Tom]

Don't know if you've seen this approach from this post... may be helpful. I can see the advantage of the large sockets for storage inside while under way.

http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?p=293712&sid=579e6e642a0653e176145c3ee43957b6

[thataway]

We have always been able to use the swim step/ladder on the C Dory, but what makes a lot of difference is to put a handle on the upper outer side of the splash well, to grab onto when coming up out of the water. Also putting non skid strips and some higher hand held on the side of the hull, such as the railings on the C Dory 25 helps. The 3 step ladder is better than the 2 step--and one which holds and angle out from the swim step is also much easier. Sometimes you can put blocks to hold the ladder out at a better angle.

Generally we just sit on the side gunnel and swing our feet into the dinghy pontoon, and then into the floor. The tube of the inflatable needs to be hard.

Two things help us in this. One is the high pressure inflatable, "hard" floor in the dinghy. The soft floor or even slat floor is difficult to stand on. The other is that we are both fairly tall.

Another option is the "T" ladder such as on the Tom Cat. These have a bracket which allows they to stand out at a slight angle from the hull, and makes it easier to board.


Some of these are folding, and will take less space.

We have had several of the "folding ladders" described in the link and above, thru the years, (even still own one), but never have been happy with them. The key to using them is longer extensions for off the hull.

[Major Tom]

Thanks, Bob. Yes, I installed a piece of paddleboard traction mat in the splashwell, works great for getting to the platform. The main problem we're having with the platform ladder (other than only 2 rungs) is the lack of a handhold on the right side. My platform is on the port side, so a rope loop around the cleat on that side, or mounting a handhold there as you suggested, is fine, but without another hold on the right it's tough for the Admiral's bad right knee... she swings to her left. Of course I always offer a hand for her right side, but she's one of those "no thanks, I need to do it myself" type of people.

After hours of research and measuring and pondering, I gave up on the gunnel ladder, and ordered a 4 step under platform. Once in place I'll see what other grab rails or inventions I need to make.

The other idea I had is to mount 2- U shaped rails, about 12" high, directly onto the swim platform itself, with stanchion mounts. So it would be sort of like the top of a deck ladder. If i could figure out how to attach a pic i would... after reading up on it I still can't find the darn attachment button!

Again, thanks!

[thataway]

Tom, I believe that you are on the right track, and I fully understand the issues with enough to help both pull and balance, with the right hand. I have just used the outboard, with a bum knee, a railing would be a great help.

Although I don't remember seeing a hand rail, in the splash well of a 22, but it could be easily done. I probably would put a backing block or plate inside of the splash well, since the glass is not real thick. You could take it from mid splash well offset slight to the port side of midline (for port mounted swim step), to the top of the splash rail, where it is close to being level. The size could be smaller than the illustrated below railing used on the Tom Cat from the motor bracket (swim step), to the top of the transom:

[Major Tom]

Update: I got an Amarine 4 step telescoping ladder. I looked at all the Garelick and Windline options, but didn't see anything that looked right for me. It's a bit narrower than some, maybe 12 or 13", but that doesn't seem to be an issue so far.

I'm installing it now, but already I can tell it's much sturdier than the Garelick 2 step I'm replacing. The SS mounting brackets are thick, I think 16 guage (?), and are about 12" long, so I feel like I'll get slightly better support over the entire depth of the platform, better than the 2-3" mount on the Garelick. I'm using 1/4" x2" x 12" aluminum on top of the platform as the top plates (which may be overkill, but the alternative was to use 2 plates 4" long on each side, so I'd rather have a continuous strip). I could have used SS but working with it is way too hard. Also using some leftover 1/2" thick ipe blocks underneath as standoffs/backing plates (only so the quick lock tab is easier to grab). So I have no concerns about over-stressing the platform or other mounting issues.

It telescopes smoothly. More importantly it looks like the Admiral will be able to reach the 3rd step without even having to bend her knee, and the 4th only by putting her head under water. I think I'll reach the 4th step by lifting my foot just a few inches, which is great.

I'll update after we do a water test but it's already clear to me that it will be an improvement for us.

I'm still working on a solution for the rails. I found a metal shop that will custom make 1" SS in a U-shape about 12" high, then I'd mount that in stanchion brackets to the platform. Estimated about $400 all in... a bit steep, perhaps. But I'm going to try the new ladder in the water first and see what I need then. Maybe just a 9-10" grab bar, inside the transom, would work. And, if I do decide on 12" rails on the platform, I'm a decent woodworker so maybe I'll just carve them from white oak, or maybe cut out a pattern from white oak plywood. Hmmm, going to sleep on this for a while, I certainly have enough other projects to keep me busy in the meantime!

[Major Tom]

Been using it for a few weeks now, love it. The 4th step is great, and it telescopes smoothly. It's so much easier getting on board, and I can grab the top edge of the transom with my right hand and the stern cleat with my left. The Admiral still prefers a helping hand on her right side since the transom top isn't enough for her, but that's not really a problem since she'll never be single handing the boat anyway, and she can get up on her own if she has to. I may install a transom bar at some point, for cooler storage and whatnot, so if I do that will be a complete fix.

I also installed a SS snap in place of the quick connect strap that came with the stock ladder (which required 2 hands and fishing for the other end). Now I can just snap it with one hand, and since the pressure is mostly horizontal to the snap it's pretty secure. I do attach a bungee when trailering, as a backup.

So all in all, I'm quite happy with it.