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Suzuki 90 Won't Start
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RichardM



Joined: 28 Mar 2012
Posts: 96
City/Region: Akron
State or Province: OH
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Pangur Ban
Photos: Pangur Ban
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:30 pm    Post subject: Suzuki 90 Won't Start Reply with quote

My 2006 Suzuki 90 (very low hours) worked fine until suddenly, on Sunday, turning the key to the Start position got no response. Key in the "On" position gets the warning tone and the 4 red diagnostic lights on the gauge to light; going past that to "Start" does nothing (though I hear the fuel pump cycle). Here's what I've done already: (1) tried moving the shift lever in case the linkage was out of adjustment. (2) checked all the fuses. (3) established that power does get to the coil when the battery master switch is on. (4) traded the two small relays inside the fuse box (they're identical part numbers) with each other in case one is a starter relay and was bad.

I'm out of ideas. The nearest Suzuki dealer is 35 miles away. Anyone else have this happen? Any suggestions?
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BrentB



Joined: 15 Jul 2006
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City/Region: Greenwood
State or Province: IN
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

safety kill switch ok?

Battery voltage?

Is battery fully charge?

Clean and tighten battery cables on battery and OB sides?

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greeneyegi



Joined: 12 Sep 2015
Posts: 42

State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: SS-TD
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turn key on and jump it at the starter.That will at least get it started till you can get it looked at.
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BrentB



Joined: 15 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

or have the battery tested

How old is it?

They can still hold some charge but cant supply a full load

OBs requires several hundred amps to start
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RichardM



Joined: 28 Mar 2012
Posts: 96
City/Region: Akron
State or Province: OH
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Pangur Ban
Photos: Pangur Ban
PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the tips. The latest-

1 - Charged both batteries (both are 1 year old, a 625 AH and a 670 AH) with the car-type charger.

2 - Cleaned and refreshed all batter connections.

3 - Double checked all fuses.

4 - Bypassed the engine kill switch with a jumper. (A friend had to replace his kill switch so I hoped this would be the problem.)

5 - Went into the fuse box and swapped the ECM control and starter relays (they're identical) in case one was bad.

6 - Checked to be sure the fuel pump is cycling when the switch is turned on.

7 - Repeatedly wobbled and wiggled the shift lever in case the neutral sensor is out of adjustment (both with and without holding the key to start).

8 - Chatted with the nearest Suzuki repairman several times -- he suggested most of the steps listed above. It's a 35 mile drive to his place, but I'll do it if necessary.

The non-starting problem happened once before, on one of my first launchings with the boat, but that time repeated attempts produced a start and the engine then ran fine. This feels like a simple electrical fault somewhere but I'm running out of ideas.

None of this helped. Turning the ignition on produces 4 red lights on the instruments (as usual) and the alert tone. Turning to Start does nothing at all (no clicks or other sounds). The 4 red lights go out after a few seconds, and the fuel pump stops its cycle.

Any other ideas???
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another C Brat had similar problems, and it turned out to be the Starter relay/bendix gear. You need to get the volt meter out, and see if there is current flowing to the starter relay/bendix gear. If voltage to the low (small wire) side of this, then jump with heavy wire, and see if it engages the bendx gear and then turns the starter motor.

What you describe suggests that power is getting to the ECU, and ignition--but not turning the starter.

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Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
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spuncopper



Joined: 02 Sep 2012
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City/Region: Camden/ Lake Wateree
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C-Dory Year: 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:17 pm    Post subject: Had a similar problem with my DF 50 Reply with quote

Hello,

I had a similar problem with my Suzuki DF 50; very frustrating. I finally took it to a mechanic. He found the problem fairly quickly, it was a ground wire; and, it was my bad.

I had replaced my starting battery and due to a neck surgery I couldn't see or reach under the motor well very well. While the main ground wire was connected I had dropped the ground to the engine. I had checked my connections by feel. The wire had dropped down behind the battery box.

Good luck.
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RichardM



Joined: 28 Mar 2012
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City/Region: Akron
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C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Pangur Ban
Photos: Pangur Ban
PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again, team. I'm going to check the starter relay / Bendix gear possibility next. Since the motor ran fine right up until it didn't, that sounds like a candidate. I changed the starter and Bendix on a lawn tractor last year and it was simple. Not sure if it's as easy on the Suzuki, where there are actual computerized control circuits involved. Anyway, it's a good suggestion! I'll keep you posted.
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Two Bears



Joined: 07 Nov 2009
Posts: 296
City/Region: Orofino
State or Province: ID
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Two Bears
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a similar problem on the Eire Canal a few years ago. Lots of help from all the local boaters, but after several hours of no joy they all went away. Next day I got a local repair man to come by. Took him 20 min. There is a cover over some wire junctions on the port side near the dip stick. Several wires get a charge from a hot stud. One of those was the starter motor. The wire had a forked fitting. It and several other wires are held in with one nut on the powered stud. The nut came loose, the starter wire was just loose enough that no power to starter but everything else worked. He wiggled & reset the wires in place, tightened the nut that held them all, and all has been well ever since.

That kind of thing can drive you to drink, which right now is a good idea as I am landlocked until mid August.

Chuck

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RichardM



Joined: 28 Mar 2012
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City/Region: Akron
State or Province: OH
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob, I made up a test lead and sure enough, when the key is turned to Start there is still no 12 v power to the small side terminal on the Bendix. That should be the pull-in coil.

Check my reasoning here: If I read the wiring diagram right, this could point to the starter relay, the key switch, or the ECM (do you agree?). Since the instruments and warning tone/buzzer all work when the key is in the On position, I'd guess the key switch is unlikely to be at fault. And since the ECM seems to be working in other respects (it makes the fuel pump relay work) and it is probably very expensive, I'm guessing it isn't the culprit either. That would point to the starter relay.

I'm going to check the price of a starter relay now. Replacing it may be cheaper than an hour of repair time at the dealer, and I think it's accessible. (I know, this could put me in the class of auto mechanics who replace one thing after another until the darn thing works....)

Chuck, I'm going to take a good look at those connections too. It would be a "duh" moment if that were the problem!

Thanks again for all the excellent help.
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RichardM



Joined: 28 Mar 2012
Posts: 96
City/Region: Akron
State or Province: OH
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Pangur Ban
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whoops. The problem with my reasoning is that I already swapped the starter relay and the ECM relay way back in an earlier test (they're identical) and nothing changed. That implies the starter relay is really OK.

Talked with an electrician friend and C-Dory owner who points out that the problem still could be in the neutral switch, also.
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the problem is somewhere between the ignition switch, and the relay--and the EMC is working or you would not get the red lights. You have not yet jumped the high power (battery to starter, or maybe easier the battery to the small side of the starter relay. This would confirm that the starter, relay and Bendix gear are working. Just swapping them out does not rule out a corrosion problem in the wiring--either + or -. Corrosion issues are the most common problem with electric issue with motors. Getting back to even where I have seen improper crimps done by the factory--which didn't show up until years later.
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RichardM



Joined: 28 Mar 2012
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City/Region: Akron
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C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Pangur Ban
Photos: Pangur Ban
PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would battery to the starter relay be the same as battery to the small lead on the pull-in coil? I can easily do that. If I hear something happening, I'll conclude that the pull-in coil works.

After doing that, should the whole ignition circuit be energized (key on)? I'm thinking that having power on to the starter would allow the hold-in coil to work and the starter motor to spin, which would give me a test of (a) pull-in coil, (b) hold-in coil and (c) starter motor. In effect we are bypassing the starter relay.

All of this assumes the computer doesn't detect something strange and call a halt.
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Correct. You can jump current to the starter relay should close the relay, kick the
Bendix gear in and turn over the starter. The entire ignition system should be energized, with key "on"--and engine should start. (First go it, if there is a starter failure in an emergency and you need to get power--when failure to start. Assuming that the heavy cable from battery to relay is energized --I assume that you checked this early on.--you can go from there to the starter.
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RichardM



Joined: 28 Mar 2012
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City/Region: Akron
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK. My friend here has also uncovered the test procedures for the two neutral switches and testing the starter relay on a bench, and I can do those as well. I'll keep you posted.
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