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Aurelia
Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 2335
City/Region: Gig Harbor
State or Province: WA
Photos: Aurelia
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 Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:18 pm Post subject: Epropulsion electric outboards |
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Looks like Torqeedo has some competition. They do not have a US distributor yet but that looks to be inevitable.
Unfortunately, the price of entry is high.
http://www.epropulsion.hk/
Greg
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Greg, Cindie & Aven
Gig Harbor
Aurelia - 25 Cruiser sold 2012
Ari - 19 Cruiser sold 2023
currently exploring with "Lia", 17 ft Bullfrog Supersport Pilothouse |
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hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 12637
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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Just as the Anacortes to Guemes Is ferry is in the news tonight, looking at a full electric replacement possibility. it isn't cheap either.
Harvey
SleepyC 
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Though in our sleep we are not conscious of our activity or surroundings, we should not, in our wakefulness, be unconscious of our sleep. |
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journey on
Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 3598
City/Region: Valley Centre
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: journey on
Photos: Journey On
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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ePropulsion is an Chinese company. It'll be interesting to see how the quality is versus Torquedo. Chinese vs. German. Of course all lithium batteries are made in the Far East.
In either case, I'll stick with my gas powered outboard for now.
Boris |
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Sea Wolf
Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 8650
City/Region: Redding
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1987
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sea Wolf
Photos: Sea Wolf
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| Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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I can only see the future for electric outboards to be limited to relatively small displacement boats at very limited speeds, and even then the cost is prohibitive if cost is any major factor in determining feasibility of usage.
I have an electric MinnKota engine mounted trolling motor mounted to the hydrofoil on the Yamaha 90 on my CD-22, and it's a great slow-trolling device for trout trolling for 2mph and below, complimenting the big engine's greater capabilities. It is, however, hopefully under powered in significant current or wind, and, even with four group 27 batteries on board, limited to a few hours before one has to recharge with the Honda 1000i generator and Vectron 40-amp charger to keep going. Works great for tolling, but that's it!
I also took a 16 foot square ended (transomed) Coleman Scanoe and set it up with both a gas (2 hp Johnson) outboard and an electric rolling motor, battery, etc., but with the same basic overall result, which I expected. The more efficient hull shape, does, however stretch the utility of the concept considerably.
Larger boats, particularly those that need to go fast and/or plane, just require too much power for the consideration of an electric power source, with the weight of lead-acid batteries and cost of the much lighter and energy dense lithium-ion (and similar) batteries being limiting considerations.
Perhaps some trickle down technology from Elon Musk's Tesla projects and Formula 1 race development will lead to batteries and electric motors that will come closer to making larger electric boats possible. (The electric motors on Formula 1 gas/electric dual powered race cars are now capable of 160 or so electric ponies to add to the many hundreds produced by the 1.6 liter gas turbocharged motors.)
So maybe there's a "Hot Boat" in your future that's electric powered. Lets hope, however, it not hot due to a fire in the battery compartment. 
Joe.  
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Sea Wolf, C-Brat #31
Lake Shasta, California
  
"Most of my money I spent on boats and women. The rest I squandered'. " -Annonymous |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 21388
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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| Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Larger boats, particularly those that need to go fast and/or plane, just require too much power for the consideration of an electric power source, with the weight of lead-acid batteries and cost of the much lighter and energy dense lithium-ion (and similar) batteries being limiting considerations. |
Joe, you must have missed the last few years technology from Torqeedo...  Yes
Their batteries are expensive ($16,000 for the battery for the 80 hp) Total rig is going to run in the $50 to 60K range...(without boat--which is lightweight)--not ready for prime time C Dory.. But for a dinghy they are practical--and not your grandfather's trolling motors...$2000 for the Torqeedo "equal" to a 3 hp outboard. We have pretty well substantiated a range of 14 to 16 miles (at a "conservative speed)...or faster, a shorter range.
Perhaps as interesting, there is currently crossing the Atlantic Ocean from the US to Portugal, Solar Voyager, an autonomous, solar-powered vessel. It is making better time than the human currently rowing--and the kayaker (who dropped out before leaving the confines of New York)
Costs of Li Ion batteries have come down substantially in the last couple of years. Torqeedo makes 40 and 80 hp outboards. Fast speeds and wake boarding. Boats have crossed the Atlantic with Solar power only,
The Li ion Iron phosphate battery which would replace my two AGM batteries (weight about 136 lbs and cost about $360), has a weight of 28 lbs, and costs $1300. A couple of years ago that battery would have been about $5,000. Costs are coming down, and will fall more.
I am concerned with this being a Chinese company, and the quality we will have to see about. I will stick with Torqeedo. The specs, except for more weight--is close to my Torqueedo Chinese clone battery is higher voltage, about the same capacity, and weight is almost 2x. They don't seem to have been very successful in the reverse engineering... I don't know what the price will be--but it should be cheaper. Torqeedo, claims that their cells are made in Japan, not China. I suspect that there is a good reason for that, although items from Japan, tend to cost more than those made in China.
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Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL |
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Sea Wolf
Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 8650
City/Region: Redding
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1987
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sea Wolf
Photos: Sea Wolf
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:51 am Post subject: |
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Bob- So a CD-25 with two 80 hp Torquedoes would run about $100,00 to $120,00, sans the boat, trailer, electronics, dealer prep, taxes, licenses, or $200,000+ all up?
Pretty steep, at least for now!
Bet Harvey would like it for the twins alone! 
Joe. |
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hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 12637
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 5:01 am Post subject: |
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Up with the Twins.
The Electric ferry that was on the news the other day had twins.... not sid by side, but one on each end, looked like a pod drive on a tug boat.
AND moving on .... to another electric boat.
There is one, an electric sail boat, that has applied for the Race to Alaska 2016. It is 6 feet long, autonomous, so no onboard crew, and is a bit of a consternation to the Race Committee, as the rules state no shore support is allowed, and I don't think this thing can tie itself to the dock or run up and ring the bell to stop it's running race time.
I don't know the technicalities of the electronics but it is a sail boat with programming to allow it to get from point A to point B in the most efficient manner considering tide, current and wind. Going to be something to watch.
Harvey
SleepyC
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 21388
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Sea Wolf wrote: | Bob- So a CD-25 with two 80 hp Torquedoes would run about $100,00 to $120,00, sans the boat, trailer, electronics, dealer prep, taxes, licenses, or $200,000+ all up? Pretty steep, at least for now!
Bet Harvey would like it for the twins alone! :wink
Joe. :teeth :thup |
Yep, it would be steep for now--and that is why one would not use a standard 25, but build an ultralight 25, which would run fine with a single 80 hp, at about $60k, Plus another 60 K to build the boat, you are in a reasonable price range.
Alternative where it makes a lot more sense, is to use one of the longer narrow lightweight hulls, such as the Ecotrawler 33 or GH TT 35 and cruise at 8 to 10 knots. Both of these boats have a large area to mount solar panels.
If I was designing, and building, I would be closer to 30 feet, more of a semi dory, and make the WLB narrower, as a true dory--then even the 40 might be enough. (but the cost between the 40 and 80 is not a lot, so go with the 80...battery power seems to be the same, and you have that reserve when needed)
Another use would be light weight pontoon boat.--or Cat houseboat in the same size range-semi displacement hulls. For example I had a friend who designed and built a 32 foot ultra light cat--M & M design wave piercing take off--and the hulls, deck and house, with furniture came in at about 1200 lbs. It would go 15 knots with 15 hp. Scale that up a bit, and all of a sudden that $60,000 for the engine and 2 batteries does not sound so bad. If I was younger, I probably would build something like that. My neighbor is using some old Hobie hulls, and with 3 HP electric getting 3 to 6 knots, and using Li ion batteries--solar panels, feels he will have a range to get him from our houses to the Gulf and out 15 miles--total 60 miles round trip. His technique does not get the lightest boat nor the best hulls for this application but works. |
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