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School me on Inflatable PFD's
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Aurelia



Joined: 21 Aug 2009
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City/Region: Gig Harbor
State or Province: WA
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have used inflatables and worn then since we started with our first C-dory. After using our vests and testing them three times, we are planning to replace them this winter just to keep the safety equipment fresh. We will be looking for two more inflatable models that are comfortable and have a good pocket for a few safety items as well. We do carry some non-inflating models on the boat as well and I actually wear one of them occasionally in the winter. We don't need any built in harness.

We don't have a brand preference and will be giving fit/features the priority.

Here is one example of a vest that has the goods for us.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/boating/life-jackets-vests/inflatable-life-jackets%7C/pc/104794380/c/104741280/sc/104399280/cabela-s-guidewear-174-3500-auto-pfd/1801515.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Finflatable-life-jackets%2F_%2FN-1100590%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_104399280

Greg

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AstoriaDave



Joined: 31 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whatever model and mode of inflation you choose, it is critical that you blow them up and do a swim with yours on. We sea kayak a lot, cold waters, and we practiced self rescue ... reentry into the kayaks, assisted and nonassisted rescues, the whole ball of wax. And found that the harness and straps need to be firmly cinched in place, or the dang things shift all over the place. In addition, essentially none of the inflation is against the torso, although ours had very good inflation to support our heads when floating on our backs.

Otherwise, we loved 'em for use on our power boat, and felt they were ideal for that.

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thataway



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No question that inflatable vests have to be maintained. But for us that over-rides the many pluses--including the comfort and safety of wearing them (especially as we did crossing oceans, with incorporated harness and tether. Many lives have been saved by inflatable vests now. There have been a few failures, but those products were removed from the market--and corrected before released...

Let me say that I often say the $5 life vests from WalMart are often neglected, have rot, ties missing. They have no where the amount of floatation, which the inflatable vests have...For serious offshore racing/passage making, there are further precautions, for life saving gear. But having 35# of floatation, sure beats the 16# (less than half) floation of the Type II vests. We do have two Type I vests with 32 # of foam floatation--far better materials than the cheap vests.

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Thataway
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Pandion



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have spent a lot of time hanging upside down in kayaks in very cold water (in a drysuit) working on self-rescue skills. But for all that practice, I realize I have been pretty lax about maintaining the pair of West Marine “offshore” inflatable life jackets I keep aboard my C-Dory. I also have four good Kokatat vests in the locker under the passenger’s seat, but the inflatables are the ones my wife and I wear most often.

WM has a good article on inflatable life vest maintenance here, and that’ll be my project for tomorrow. (By the way, WM’s life jackets are on sale for a few more days. The ones I own are now half-price.)

When I went back tonight and read the specs on my alleged "offshore" inflatables, I noticed that they are listed as being "Type V with Type II performance."

According to the Coast Guard, an Offshore Lifejacket (Type 1), "is designed for extended survival in rough, open water." On the other hand, the Near Shore Buoyant Vest (Type II) is described as being "for calm inland water where there is chance of fast rescue." Can anyone explain this apparent--scary--discrepancy?

Anyway, great conversation, guys. It’s a splash of cold water for me--about 42 degrees in fact, which is the average February water temperature at Friday Harbor.

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colbysmith



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do like the inflatables I have for my wife and I, and as I stated, wear them full time when out salmon trolling since that involves standing in the cockpit working with the lines frequently, on a moving boat, and many times solo. (I also carry a PLB and strobe light on the PFD when solo.) However, for the rest of the time where I'm mostly in the cabin or on local inland lakes during the summer, the old standby flotation PFD's (not the orange ones, but the nicer "ski" and "vest" type PFD's) are readily available just under one of the two forward cabin seats. Then during boating events with lots of boats in close proximity (4th of July at night), either those vests or the inflatables are worn while underway. My inflatables are fairly new, just two seasons on them, but I did "pop" them last summer once the water warmed up, just to experience how they worked in real time, and to check for leakage and such. The inflatables do work well! However, I would not trust them to be my only form of live saving vest on my boat. Thus, the reason for still keeping the other style on board.
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NancyandBud



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pandion wrote:
I have spent a lot of time hanging upside down in kayaks in very cold water (in a drysuit) working on self-rescue skills. But for all that practice, I realize I have been pretty lax about maintaining the pair of West Marine “offshore” inflatable life jackets I keep aboard my C-Dory. I also have four good Kokatat vests in the locker under the passenger’s seat, but the inflatables are the ones my wife and I wear most often.

WM has a good article on inflatable life vest maintenance here, and that’ll be my project for tomorrow. (By the way, WM’s life jackets are on sale for a few more days. The ones I own are now half-price.)

When I went back tonight and read the specs on my alleged "offshore" inflatables, I noticed that they are listed as being "Type V with Type II performance."

According to the Coast Guard, an Offshore Lifejacket (Type 1), "is designed for extended survival in rough, open water." On the other hand, the Near Shore Buoyant Vest (Type II) is described as being "for calm inland water where there is chance of fast rescue." Can anyone explain this apparent--scary--discrepancy?

Anyway, great conversation, guys. It’s a splash of cold water for me--about 42 degrees in fact, which is the average February water temperature at Friday Harbor.


Type II performance would indicate 16 lbs buoyancy. Type V is a "special use" PFD.

Intended Use:
Restricted to the special use for which each is designed, for example: sailboard harness, deck suit, paddling vest, commercial white water vest or float coats.

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colbysmith



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pandion wrote:
Quote:
According to the Coast Guard, an Offshore Lifejacket (Type 1), "is designed for extended survival in rough, open water." On the other hand, the Near Shore Buoyant Vest (Type II) is described as being "for calm inland water where there is chance of fast rescue." Can anyone explain this apparent--scary--discrepancy?


This is the USCG link that discusses PFD's, their bouyancy, etc. As you can see, a type I can even have less bouyancy than a type II. I believe it's the characteristics of keeping the face out of the water that matters.
http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/cg5214/pfdselection.asp

Here is another link that talks a little more about the various PFD types:
http://www.pfdma.org/choosing/types.aspx
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thataway



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Basically the type I offshore do have 32# or more of floatation. They have more head support. They have Retro Reflective material (which I think is essential)

Colby gave some of the other suggestions, but no one has mentioned crotch straps. These keep the jacket from riding up, or even inverting to put the person face down!

Other suggestions for PFD including--a good bright strobe light (many of the small lights are not adequate--several of my waterproof VHF radios have strobes on them--but not as bright as an ACR strobe. The whistle should be "waterproof"--that is drain, if it fills with water.

Face guards/sprayhoods/splashguards are available as a PFD accessory. pictured below.

Other newer PFD accessories, include AIS locator ($200), PLB, the Radio--rigging or sheep's foot knife, signal mirrors, and pocket rocket flares.. All of these should be tied to the PFD with strong line. (Other options are Shark repellant and water dye.)

If I was doing a lot of offshore sailing, one the first things to add (from the already present PLB, VHF radio, Strobe, flares,) would be the AIS--some do a DSC trigger, Current hand held VHF with DSC include Icom M93D and Standard Horizon HX 851. However, the AIS makes direction finding in fog or night time far better, from boats it can be "seen" for up to 5 miles--and a chopper probably considerably further.



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AstoriaDave



Joined: 31 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just want to reinforce a couple points:

1. A crotch strap is vital. It will keep the flotation in place help keep your face out of the water.

2. Insulation on your torso is also critically important. If you go into hypothermia, even the PFDs designed to support an unconscious person's head to allow breathing sans water are likely to fail. Once unconscious, your survival chances plummet. In this respect, full foam PFDs are superior, if cut to supply ample neck/head support.

3. Test your PFD with a swim in water of the temperature on which you boat. You will likely isolate any problems within minutes.
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Marco Flamingo



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I have 2 of just about of everything. The ones that get the most use are the fanny pack pull-the-cord type. I even wear one when fishing with waders from the beach. I often get back to the house before I notice that I still have it on. Once, I drove into town and somebody at the hardware store asked me about it. Ooops.

I've tested my inflatables a few times and always grumble that the cost of the replacement items is 80% of buying a whole new inflatable. Since some of mine are getting old, it's probably time to get new ones.

I have float jackets that get used when salmon fishing in the rain. Warm, waterproof, and it has a neoprene crotch strap for exposure protection when in the water. If I'm single-handed, then I wear my Stearns flotation overalls. Those only count as a PFD when worn. I'm not sure about the jackets.

So I basically have PFDs that match the situation. The ones that are always on board are the self-inflating over the shoulder type. I've had the little "AlkaSeltzer" tablet go and found them popped open from the humidity after a few years.

Mark
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JamesTXSD



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The automatic ones can also be fired manually... like when moving stuff around and the tab gets pulled...



Yep, happened today. Wink That's OK, it was due to be re-armed. I've had this one for a lot of years - wore it on the Corsair trimaran in rough conditions with the harness strapped to a jack-line.

I recall another trimaran sailor getting caught in his forward hatch (similar to the hatch over the v-berth on the C-Dorys), when the tab caught on something and the PFD inflated. Pretty sure I had a chuckle over that.. karma sometimes takes a long time to get ya. Twisted Evil
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hardee



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I carry 4 inflatable PFD's and all are of the "Hydrostatic" type, meaning they have to go into the water, be submerged several inches before they inflate. In 10 years, I have had one accidental inflation, (a guest, pulled the tab while standing on the dock Shocked I told her "Quick get into the water, It needs to be cooled off Wink Laughing I stopped her just shy of getting her feet wet.

The hydrostatics have a pressure monitor gauge, indicating green or red condition, and the inflation cylinder and sensor device do not have to be changed every year, but it says to change if not in the green, (paraphrase there). The moisture sensing, "pill systems may need changing each year, as the humidity softens the pill and could allow inflation, even though not in the water. The hydrostatic system will be the more expensive of the two systems but, I only have to replace every 3 years. The charging kit, IIRC, was about $35 for mine and about 25 for the annual replacement type.

I agree that you should try them in the water some time to know what that is going to be like.

Harvey
SleepyC Moon


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AstoriaDave



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That photo of the inflated PFD reminded me that we had one go off while in a mesh duffle, which "grew" substantially one day while sitting on deck, awaiting storage as we unloaded at the float. We got a huge laugh out of it.
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hardee



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr Bob said:

Quote:
"Other newer PFD accessories, include AIS locator ($200), PLB, the Radio--rigging or sheep's foot knife, signal mirrors, and pocket rocket flares.. All of these should be tied to the PFD with strong line. (Other options are Shark repellant and water dye.)

If I was doing a lot of offshore sailing, one the first things to add (from the already present PLB, VHF radio, Strobe, flares,) would be the AIS--some do a DSC trigger,.... However, the AIS makes direction finding in fog or night time far better, from boats it can be "seen" for up to 5 miles--and a chopper probably considerably further.


Bold emphasis mine.

I gave this device a very strong consideration, and though I opted for the PLB, the AIS Emergency Signal device is still not far off the list. I waters where there is lots of vessel traffic, and with many non commercial AIS units out there, and especially with so many "Receive Only" systems now available, that increases your chanc for a quick response considerably.

Of course that response would depend on the vessel operators paying attention to their plotter screen, recognizing the emergency AIS signal and knowing what to do in response. Much of that is easy as pie, but the paying attention is up for grabs. Story to follow:

Last summer, I had occasion to encounter (as he was approaching my path from Starboard) a 40 foot vessel named "Stay Alert" (I got the name, size and the 2 important factors off the AIS, Closest point of Approach, and Time to CPA) when he was still about 2 miles away, and the indicators were that it was going to be close in both time and distance. I was with 4 kayaks, so speed to move was not an option. After trying to make radio contact with "Stay Alert" on 16, 9, 13, 7, 14, and 66 with no response, and having alerted the kayaks of the impending close contact, and no response from "Stay Alert" He passed us within 150 feet, doing 22 knots and throwing a 3+foot wake. Had there been fog, no AIS or Radar, it might have been a disaster. Had "Stay Alert" s plotter had an AIS Emergency signal pop up, I suspect that whoever generated that signal and needed to get out of the water, would have either been run over, or left to his own devices to get out of that water.

As for me, If I ever see "Stay Alert" pop up on the AIS again, I will know to not count on it for any likely evidence of being alert. Also, it will get a very wide birth from SleepyC.

Now back to the Thread. It is my feeling that the AIS Emergency device would be a benefit to anyone in the water in Puget Sound, San Juan or Gulf islands area due to the frequent AIS using traffic there.

Harvey
SleepyC Moon

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bobjarrard



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:27 am    Post subject: life vests Reply with quote

I started my kids in their own sailboats at age 5. They cold swim and were as water safe as a five year can be but until they got out of high school and did not sail, they wore the vesti if in the boat. I remember watching my eight year old daughter sailing her 8' Naples Sabot in the LA Outer harbor as she had to make a choice of challenging an inboard freighter that looked like a mountain in the water for her right of way or losing a race where she was well in the lead. No time in moments of challenge to review your safety precautions. The same mentality of safety first carries over to driving a car and investing our savings!!
PS: Did you see Jim's new boat in the picture of his vest that went off sorta of by itself. If you do not follow their blog, you might take a look, they are still C-Brats and I get a big kick out of reading about their very interesting life!!
bob Jarrard
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