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Caulking Cockpit Floor - LifeCaulk over Butyl Tape?
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localboy



Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 4656
City/Region: Lake Stevens via Honolulu
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: 'Au Kai (Ocean Traveler)
Photos: 'AU KAI
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to agree with Boris. Our notoriously wet bilge is open to the fuel tank via at least three openings in the bulkhead between battery/water tank and fuel tank; one to part & starboard and a larger cut out dead center. Whenever we lay the boat up or park it without use, I open all four hatches to let air flow throw and I try to keep the bilge as dry as possible. NOT an easy feat.
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Wife to her husband pointing @ us...from the bow of their 50-footer; Prideaux Haven 2013
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pat,
Posting a photo of the cockpit/fuel tank, from the aft cabin bulkhead to the bulkhead in front of the splash well would be a good idea to clarify several issues.

I sent you a PM, about one concern I did not mention on the forum. That is that various boats in the 25 series have been built differently--both from the type of fuel tank (plastic vs Aluminum), fuel fill and vents (one side vs two sides and mid cockpit vs forward cockpit).

Some 25's have had core rot in the aft cabin bulkhead, because water sat under that aft cabin bulkhead, and wicked up into the balsa core, which had not been adequate tabbed into the bottom or the boat, leaving core exposed to the water.
The area under the cockpit floor in the 25 had various "stringers" and "petitions" to hold the fuel tank in place. In some boats, there is a plywood on edge petition between the fuel tank and aft cabin bulkhead. These are glassed over with mat.
Some have limber holes, (to allow water to drain aft) and some don't.

Even though some water will get into the area where the tank is, thru the cockpit floor hatch and access holes, you want to avoid more water getting in from around the edges.--especially trapped around the lower part of the aft cabin bulkhead, causing core rot and in some cases getting into the cabin under the cabinets on each side.

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Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL
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Pat Anderson



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 8551
City/Region: Birch Bay, WA
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Daydream
Photos: Daydream and Crabby Lou
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have an aluminum fuel tank with a fuel fill and vent on each side. My vent is like the one Boris described, the vent hole points aft and slightly down. The PetroClean guys said the tank itself was in very good condition. Don't know about the other stuff, I will look closely when I am able. I have stuff in B'ham tomorrow and then will be gone for a week, so it will be the following weekend before I get back to the boat!
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colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 4523
City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just pulled up my cockpit floor yesterday. Easier job than I thought it would be and only took about an hour. After removing the side steps I used a sharp utility knife to cut down both sides of the sealant, then pulled the sealant out. Then used a flat pri-bar to lift the floor out of the rim. Tomorrow I plan to raise the bow some then pressure wash the mold and mildew off the fuel tank and bilge area. Tighten up some ground screws and look into changing out the fuel gauge sender. After that I’ll put the floor in. Sounds like the 3M 4000 is what some are recommending. But would the self leveling RV sealants work? Colby
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although some of the sealants like Dicor or Geocel might work, the 3M 4000 would be a better choice (after very thorough cleaning. I have used both of the RV sealants many times. They tend to flow more than the 4000 does.
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colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 4523
City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All moot now. Just bought 4 large tubes of the 3M 4000. Pressure washed everything this morning and will change out the sender then put the floor back in.
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colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 4523
City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everything actually looked pretty clean, once I pressure washed the mold and mildew off. I'll try to put a few more photos in C-Traveler's photo album later. The tank is not fastened down any way, but does have some "bumper stoppers" behind it to keep it from sliding back. The interesting thing is, there is a good 6 to 8" of space between the rear of the fuel tank, and the bulkhead. Has anyone tried putting in access plates to this space to use for storage of things like say a spare paddle, cleaning brush, boat hook, or even fishing poles? Sure seems like it would be a good space to store such items. Colby
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colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 4523
City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a photo of that space I was referring to at the back of the fuel tank.




The rest of the photos I took can be found here:

http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_albumName=album3250&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

Colby
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Colby, did you set all of the screws in epoxy plugs, and take care of any core issues while you had it apart?

I don't know how easy it would be to access that area aft of the tank. I believe in my boat that aft bulkhead in the fuel compartment goes all of the way from bottom to top of the space.
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colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 4523
City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fortunately the only core issues I could see was with the side steps and I cleaned those out and filled in with epoxy or fiberglass. I’ll take care of the screw holes before putting it back together but a quick look earlier showed them to be ok. There is a small cutout in that back bulkhead for the fuel hose and some wiring along with the drain hole center bottom. Too bad it wouldn’t be easy to put a long rectangular hatch over that area tho for additional storage.
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colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 4523
City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Double checked stuff today as I worked on cleaning off all the previous sealant. The only place I saw any wet/rotting core was a few spots around the edges of the side steps. It appeared there was some sort of protection around those edges, but it had come off in some spots, and that's where the core was wet. I dug that out, put some expanding foam in to fill in the larger areas, then used epoxy or fiberglass to finish out the fill. Regarding my fuel sender, I was having my fuel gauge read empty, when there was still 30 gals of fuel in the tank. When I pulled the old sender, it appeared that the problem was likely due to the length of the sender arm. It appeared a bit to short and would hit it's full stroke with about 30 gals still in the tank. I set up the new sender to be a little more accurate. Hope I got it right when I go to fill the tank back up in the spring. Also pulled the fuel pickup tube to check that. In the process of cleaning the fitting up, broke off the fuel line barbed fitting. That barbed fitting was an anti-siphon type. Seems like that adds a bit of restriction to the fuel pick up. Probably why the little electric auxiliary pump I have can't pull fuel out except at a trickle. The main and kicker seem to be able to pull enough fuel with out problem, but I wonder if the anti-siphon fitting is necessary. (I did replace it with another anti-siphon fitting.) Also, the bottom of the pickup tube had some wire screen on it. The new tube I purchased did not, and I elected not to try and install that screen on the new tube with the possibility it could come off in the tank. Still have a little more cleaning to do where the sealant will be applied, and tomorrow is only suppose to be 32 before warming up again this weekend. So I'll wait until this weekend to reinstall the floor. Maybe I was just lucky, but it really didn't seem like that hard of a job to do this. Hardest part was probably reaching inside the access plates on the side steps to remove the screws holding the side steps on. I didn't notice any hold downs on the fuel tank, and in fact I can move it around slightly. (It's empty right now.) I'm thinking it must just be it's weight and snug fit within the space that keeps it in place. Lastly, like a few others here, I built a bilge sucker system to suck out the little bit of remaining water that the bilge pump doesn't pull. After pulling the sponges out to see they were half or more dissolved, and then having some of that mess plug up the bilge drain hole, I decided to pull that system out rather than finish permanently installing it. I suspect there will always be some water in the bilge anyway, especially in the side chines, and the best way to dry that up, since it's on the trailer when I'm not on the water, is to keep the bow raised and drain plug out, and even leave the transom compartments open. I think most the bilge water, when sitting level, is going to be under the cockpit floor area anyway, and without routine access to maintain any bilge suckers in that area, it's not a maintainable system. JMHO. Colby
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with you Colby on there being some water near the cabin bulkhead. I can keep my aft bilge dry with the boat on the trailer, and slant back on.

A good reason not to have another hatch over the aft end of the tank, is that it would leak, just like the others do! I find plenty of storage aft of the cockpit under the splash well--I have a fender board there, and at least 6 "shoe boxes" full of spares, parts, extra electrical adaptors. Then I have two boxes on each side in the bulge (I have dry deck on the bottom of all of these compartments.
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colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 4523
City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
A good reason not to have another hatch over the aft end of the tank, is that it would leak, just like the others do! I find plenty of storage aft of the cockpit under the splash well--I have a fender board there, and at least 6 "shoe boxes" full of spares, parts, extra electrical adaptors. Then I have two boxes on each side in the bulge (I have dry deck on the bottom of all of these compartments.


I'm kind of thinking that also, about more leaking thru compartments. The other problem is the shape of the cockpit floor right there near the aft edge. There is about two thinner inches where the floor is over the "rim" holding it up. Then it is much thicker. As I think about it more, I suspect it would affect the structural strength of the floor to put a hatch in this area as well. Next place to put an opening or hatch, would be in that short bulkhead between the fuel tank and the aft compartments. But access thru those would be a pain. Where is your water tank located? Mine is under the splash well. Although I do have some room on top of it to put some stuff. I don't have quite as much room in the other area you mention, as I placed a small 3 gal fuel tank on the port side of the bilge to use as a spare tank with no ethanol (not sure I really need it), and the on the starboard side the trim tab pump and oil reservoir take up some space pretty much right in the middle. (Lousy placement. Maybe I should look at moving it.) Really just hate seeing that open space behind the tank, and not being able to use it. Laughing Colby
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LesR



Joined: 05 May 2010
Posts: 162
City/Region: St. Louis
State or Province: MO
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Intuition
Photos: Intuition
PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm looking at performing this same process of removing and re-sealing the cockpit steps/hatch over the fuel tank on our boat and have a few questions for those of you who have already completed it:
- Did you remove the fuel tank and check/clean under it also? If so, how heavy/unwieldy is the [empty] tank?
- Sounds as if 3M 4000 is the consensus sealer for this application. Are there any others I should consider?

Thanks in advance!

Les
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colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 4523
City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cleaned around it but did not remove it. I guess I didn’t see any reason too. If you do remove it, I’d suggest making sure you’ve drained it first. I imagine it would take some time removing the fill and vent hoses.
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