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Caulking Cockpit Floor - LifeCaulk over Butyl Tape?
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Pat Anderson



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:25 pm    Post subject: Caulking Cockpit Floor - LifeCaulk over Butyl Tape? Reply with quote

The first step in the gas tank cleaning was taking up the cockpit floor. Now I have cleaned the old caulking off the boat and the cockpit floor, and am ready to put the floor back down and re-caulk. That got me studying potential caulking, since the old stuff was FAR too adhesive and hard to get up.

There is a large gap all the way around the cockpit floor. I don't want to fill that gap with anything adhesive or hard to get up. Butyl tape seems to fill that purpose nicely, since it seals well, stays flexible and has low adhesion. But for appearance, I am thinking the top part of the caulking should be something like LifeCaulk, maybe the top quarter inch or so.

Anybody see any problem with that approach?

Here is short video on butyl tape, and Dicor butyl tape is available on Amazon. Dicor is a leading manufacturer of sealants for RV, so I know it is a good brand.


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journey on



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pat, I used 3M 4000 when I removed/replaced the cockpit floor. It stays white. I think I used 3 tubes. Sets quickly, so it's best if 2 people do it, one to apply, the other to smooth. The second person needs a trial run.

Boris
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Sunbeam



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a big fan of butyl, but I wouldn't use it in most gap-filling scenarios. It stays very soft and sticky (its good point) but that would make it a big mess in an application with gaps, and it doesn't have its own "structure," if you know what I mean. (If it's a captured gap, such as a pocket under a plastic/geometrical frame, then maybe.) Also, I don't know if fuel ever makes its way to that area, but it is not fuel resistant at all (why it cleans up so easily with mineral spirits, even years later).

Since I can't see the gaps or exactly what you have there, I don't feel confident in making a suggestion, but butyl probably not. (OTOH, if you were using butyl for something/else, there is no need/desire to go over it with anything other bedding compound or caulk, IMO. If you need another compound, then just go with that through and through.
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BrentB



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We used 3M 4000UV and the next time will use Boat life caulk see http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/document.do?docId=201
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thataway



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with 4000 as being one of the good sealant/adhesives. The butyl tape has to be in compression--kept tight between screws. As Sunbeam says, it is not for filling gaps.

Yes, Boat Life Life seal would work, and in this case may actually be the preferential material.

Here the product description:
Quote:
A unique combination of marine silicone and polyurethane, formulated especially for fiberglass. LifeSeal® offers a fast-curing, low odor, high adhesion, non-sagging, non-corrosive, non-yellowing formula. It provides a durable permanent watertight seal for joints subject to structural movement. May be used above and below the waterline. Use for sealing decks to hulls, thru-hull fittings, vinyl ports, sealing/glazing windshields and bedding marine hardware. Will adhere to metal, glass, wood, Lexan®, ABS® and certain other materials. Can be removed without damaging gel-coat.


It is one of the fuel "Silicones" which is useful in boating. It is also preferential for use of bedding plastic fittings, such as plastic port holes.

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Pat Anderson



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is WRONG with LifeCaulk (and probably 3M 4000) for filling the large voids between the cockpit floor and the boat is that it is "high adhesion." I don't think anybody appreciates how LARGE that void is. What I need is LOW adhesion, so when it needs to come out again, if ever, it will not be the total PITA that I faced for two days trying to remove the old caulking, whatever it was. We need something to fill a fairly large void between the cockpit floor and the boat that would NOT be hard to remove. I still don't understand why butyl tape pressed down into that void to mostly fill it would not fill the bill better than anything else, since it stays flexible and is low adhesion. What am I missing?
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BrentB



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How wide is the gap?
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thataway



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pat, do you want water getting into the gap, and possibly getting trapped around the "bulkheads/stringers"?

There are some silicones which are very high adhesive value, and some low adhesion. Silicones do penetrate the gel coat, and make adhesion of other products more difficult down the line.

There is a reason that the factory used the material which they used. That was to keep water out. laying butyl tape in the "groove" , it will not be under any compression, and thus no adhesion--and water will get in there. Once in there, because of the nature of the construction--it will be difficult to remove.

Your choice.
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journey on



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To remove adhesives/sealants (several types,) I've used DeBond Marine Formula. This "removes polyurethane adhesives and sealants including cured and uncured 3M™5200, 4200 and 4000 & Sika™ 291 adhesives". It works.

A similar product is: "BoatLIFE Release Sealant & Adhesive Remover.
Ideal for Removing Cured Silicone, Polyurethane, and Polysulfide.

Boris
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Pat Anderson



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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City/Region: Birch Bay, WA
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C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Daydream
Photos: Daydream and Crabby Lou
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BrentB wrote:
How wide is the gap?


I will take a picture when I drop the floor back in before caulking. The floor is actually quite a poor fit, and the size of the gap varies significantly around the floor. I will also measure the depth.

I have four tubes of Boat Life LifeCaulk, and am dubious whether that will be sufficient, but we'll see.
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BrentB



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks and Good Luck

Take your time, where knee pads and turn on the music
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Sunbeam



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pat Anderson wrote:
The floor is actually quite a poor fit, and the size of the gap varies significantly around the floor.


I'll be interested to see photos. I was thinking you were bedding the hatch but now it sounds like it's maybe the whole cockpit sole (?).

If you have something like a sole to ledger fit that is something that will always be there, and it is a very poor fit with gaps, you might consider molding an interface of thickened epoxy. We used to do this before re-installing keels that had poor fitment. Basic idea is that you tape one surface with something like shiny/clear packing tape (so that nothing will stick) and prep the other surface for epoxy to stick to it. Then you slather the prepped surface with thickened epoxy and place it how it ought to go permanently. Once the epoxy cures you separate the two pieces (which the tape allows) and remove the tape, then use bedding compound or caulk to re-install "permanently" -- you now have a more-or-less perfect fit this time, and any future times, and the bedding compound is doing just that - bedding - vs. major gap filling (which tends not to work in the long run).

Of course I may not be visualizing what you are doing correctly - photos will likely clear that up.
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journey on



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In thinking about the cockpit floor, I would like to point out that the tank is open to the aft lazaret. There are drain holes, right at hull level which serves to drain water from the tank compartment to the lazaret and vice versa.

Where I'm going with this is that even if you seal the cockpit floor tight, water will get in the aft of the boat through the floor hatches. When you drive the boat, or otherwise get it to a position of bow down, the water goes directly around the tank. Fresh water, perhaps, but water nevertheless. Pumping the aft lazaret helps, but remember to drain the aft section of the boat via the drain plug.

Boris
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Pat Anderson



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 8551
City/Region: Birch Bay, WA
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Daydream
Photos: Daydream and Crabby Lou
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

journey on wrote:
To remove adhesives/sealants (several types,) I've used DeBond Marine Formula. This "removes polyurethane adhesives and sealants including cured and uncured 3M™5200, 4200 and 4000 & Sika™ 291 adhesives". It works.

A similar product is: "BoatLIFE Release Sealant & Adhesive Remover.
Ideal for Removing Cured Silicone, Polyurethane, and Polysulfide.
Boris


I wish I had one of those products BEFORE I started! I used Goo Gone, effective on some stuff to soften,m totally ineffective on other stuff.

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Pat Anderson



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 8551
City/Region: Birch Bay, WA
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Daydream
Photos: Daydream and Crabby Lou
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sunbeam wrote:

I'll be interested to see photos. I was thinking you were bedding the hatch but now it sounds like it's maybe the whole cockpit sole (?).


There are two related projects. The whole scope is kind of in two threads, this one and GOOD SERVICE - Fuel Tank Cleaned and Access Port Installed... To access the gas tank to put the access port in, the cockpit floor (sole?) had to come out. That was difficult because the prior sealer around it was highly adhesive, and very difficult to remove. I got it, or most of it, but a lot of cursing was involved!

The related project is to install a new hatch to replace the inspection port to get to the gas tank access port and fuel gauge sending unit. The original inspection port was over...nothing, somehow the tank guy and the inspection port guy in 2005 were on different pages. The hole for the hatch has been cut in the cockpit floor, which is still out of the boat. I just finished routing out the areas where the hatch screws will go and am about to start putting thickened epoxy in there.

When the hatch is bedded and screwed down, I will lay the cockpit floor back in the boat, but it will be a week before I put the four tubes of LifeCaulk around it. The last step will be to reinstall the steps. Yesterday I routed out the rotten wood in the steps and filled them with thickened epoxy.

I am hoping it is a LONG, LONG time before that cockpit floor has to come out again!
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